I am crushed....

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Re: I am crushed....

Postby admin » Mon May 06, 2019 10:07 am

Rob Holtman wrote:I use ST3 mainly for planning my rides and upload them on my Garmin Edge. I suspect did isn't possible after EOL of ST3 because the software seize to be functioning. What is the best software (online) that can just do that ? That I lose all my data after EOL of ST3 I can live with that. The basic data I keep in a spreadsheet.

Ride with GPS is probably your best bet for cycling focused route planning. They are a nice small company based in Portland that are supported by customer revenue and don't take venture capital. Just like us.
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby texmurphy » Mon May 06, 2019 12:05 pm

admin wrote:Ride with GPS is probably your best bet for cycling focused route planning...

Too bad RWGPS route planning and gps editing is a very poor second to ST3.
No other site offers the track edit ability nor the course creation ability present in ST3.
Even with the degradation of google route creating ST3 is best.

Example of RWGPS failure is anytime it encounters a staggered intersection it will fail, often with very nonlinear trackpoint placement.

Example of ST3 superiority: the ability to offset track from center of roadway or ability to move/delete trackpoint selections.
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby admin » Mon May 06, 2019 12:23 pm

Ok, I was not aware that route creation and editing had been removed in Ride With GPS. They're still offering information about it on their website and youtube videos.
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby texmurphy » Mon May 06, 2019 3:12 pm

RWGPS will do route creation (see limits referred by me above). But the smart user than takes the output from RWGPS and loads it into ST3 for edits and corrections :lol:

ST3 also very useful when you have to "patch" a failed gps device section.
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby ricomundy » Mon May 06, 2019 8:41 pm

texmurphy wrote:RWGPS will do route creation (see limits referred by me above). But the smart user than takes the output from RWGPS and loads it into ST3 for edits and corrections :lol:

ST3 also very useful when you have to "patch" a failed gps device section.


I agree, I've used ST to patch bad GPS data. It's very useful in that regard.
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby Rob Holtman » Tue May 07, 2019 5:04 am

Very sad that we have to move to inferior products :(
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby Yannos » Thu May 09, 2019 4:17 am

It's abolutely not fair that admins stop ST3.They just want to earn more and more money with Mobi, excluding all sportsmanship.
If they were really disinterested, they would leave ST3 accessible to all members.
I also want to reiterate that most of us have paid for this appli and expect to use it for more time.
I understand that managing such an appli has a cost, so why not asking for an annual fee.
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby Rootman » Thu May 09, 2019 7:19 am

Yannos wrote:It's abolutely not fair that admins stop ST3.They just want to earn more and more money with Mobi, excluding all sportsmanship.
If they were really disinterested, they would leave ST3 accessible to all members.
I also want to reiterate that most of us have paid for this appli and expect to use it for more time.
I understand that managing such an appli has a cost, so why not asking for an annual fee.


Well, they DO have to make money and ST3 isn't doing it for them. The market is all mobile apps now, so that's the direction they are heading.

I really do wish that they would put out a new version of ST3 and have a 'forever' license key that would not require activation. They could send it to all paid users so the app could be used on their next computer without activation by their servers. They could then shut down they license server and be done with it. The reality is that the 'forever key' would get out and a bunch of people would use it rather than pay for the Mobi version / service.

Personally, I just want to collect the rides. Display basic data and determine where I went and how fast. I've started to use My Tour Book. It's a different animal but it's free and works almost as well as ST3. I'll keep using ST3 till I have to switch laptops again and have a new OS. One good thing I can say about Windows 10 though, you can restore a backup from a drastically different piece of hardware and it usually comes up and runs well enough to get the missing drivers added - provided that the basics like the SATA drive don't change too much. So, if the next laptop isn't a major change I may try and go that route until the Windows bit-rot does me in.
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby Yannos » Thu May 09, 2019 8:47 am

Rootman wrote:
The reality is that the 'forever key' would get out and a bunch of people would use it rather than pay for the Mobi version / service.

.



This is why I think it could be good to pay an annuel fee to keep on with ST3
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby thosj » Thu May 09, 2019 12:11 pm

For anyone using ST3 to track lots of equipment and looking for an alternative, ProBikeGarage has added the ability to enter Initial Mileage/Hours and to Retire equipment in a recent release. This did it for me, allowing my to track all my 70 or 80 equipment items, bikes, stuff. I even trick it like I did ST3 to add "equipment" for like 2019 Miles All, and 2019 Miles Outside, and 2019 Miles for each bike, etc. Looks great with the new additions, and it IS phone/iPad/tablet!! I'd prefer a web app, but, hey, I gotta join the revolution some time!!

OH, and like I said upthread, I'd have probably paid the MOBI annual fee for ST3. Alas, I'm paying for Mobi now and am actually starting to like it so that's where I'll be with ProBikeGarage as a backup, bracing for whoever goes "out of business" first.

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Re: I am crushed....

Postby Keeby » Fri May 10, 2019 11:20 am

What would you lose by removing the licensing element of ST3 and allow those of us who wish to continue using it to do so. It's not going to hurt you in anyway, you're obviously wiping your hands of it.
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby Tisztul_A_Visztula » Sat May 18, 2019 11:13 am

whiskywheels wrote:
texmurphy wrote:Export of multiple activities is supported by Export2TCX plugin http://www.zonefivesoftware.com/sporttr ... tcx-export
You will get activity trackpoints only, not Notes, Equipment, etc.
But you can import this into garmin/strava, etc.
Some programs claim to import ST3 fitlog, but they don't do it well.



I found that tcx files, imported to MyTourbook for example, were missing all the power data, weather/temp., and all the ride names/location, although my ride notes were there.

Fitlog files imported to MyTourbook do at least show everything.............except my power data :(

I tried Golden Cheetah, but that was even worse for missing fields.

I'll probably carry on with STmobi, and can at least continue to access my 13 years of data from there, but I still want an offline backup of all my data.

Who knows how long mobi will be available for? After all, it was only Feb. 2018 that we were told; (see viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17902&p=92717&sid=2624f7565170a5de853ff53ad9ded188#p92715)
" If you've purchased a ST3 license in the past, you can be confident that your license will not expire or terminate and that we will continue to make the software available for download as you need to re-install it or move it to a new machine. Licensed customers will continue to be supported via email and our social media channels, as they have for the last 15 years. That is a commitment we are making."


Is there any desktop fitness app which can interpret the customdata fields created by ST3?

I had mirror data fields of all of the built in data field even of those like avg speed, avg power etc, and added some like moving speed, because I realized that when I deleted the data tracks of the very old activities (in order to keep the logbook size small) the majority of the standard data fields showed strange values, sometimes negative ones.

So I am totally dependent from the custom data fields.
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby Tisztul_A_Visztula » Sat May 18, 2019 11:22 am

gregoryx wrote:
To those looking for alternatives: while Golden Cheetah doesn't look great to me, it does support a direct import of the entire ST3 database. Not sure what it'll do with any custom fields. Not sure how the exports work. But it's an encouraging option on the import side.


Maye anyone around who has already tested Golden Cheetah from this aspect....?
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby texmurphy » Sat May 18, 2019 5:42 pm

MyTourbook and GoldenCheetah will import ST3 .fitlog files. These files contain basic ST3 data (trackpoints, elevation, cadence, HR, Power) as well as ST3 Location, Notes, Weather, and Equipment. Output from ST3 .fitlog is the better choice for import into either of these programs. .tcx output is too limiting. ST3 .fitlog is a very slow export but you can easily do it a year at a time and be willing to wait 15 minutes for .fitlog export to complete. .tcx output is greased lighting by comparison.
Unfortunately, the omb .fitlogex (extended fitlog) is not used by any program other than ST3.

Both MT and GC would require additional edits if you want the same information format as in ST3. MT is more likely to be able to almost do equipment tracking using the tags feature. MT has a nice database engine and can load all your data even if you have had to split logbooks due to out-of-memory faults in ST3. GC starts to bog down with large amounts of data. However if you want esoteric analysis then GC will do that.

MT takes a bit of effort to fully use the user interface...
...but so also does GC.
Last edited by texmurphy on Sun May 19, 2019 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby Tisztul_A_Visztula » Sun May 19, 2019 2:42 am

“Unfortunately, the omb .fitlogex (extended fitlog) is not used by any program other than ST3.”

So the only way to keep the mirrored standard data into customfields and the self created measures like peak VAM over 5 minutes or peak HR over 20 minutes to import them into Excel somehow, otherwise they will be lost from April 2020.

Let me ask, ADMIN, does ST mobi handle all of the development reached within ST3, all of the solutions supplied by ST3? Can one keep all of the features of the plugins of ST3 also in ST mobi? Meaning that if I give up my objections against web based fitness logbooks, and go for ST mobi, then I will not see any change in the set of data now I have in ST3?
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby fishyweb » Tue May 21, 2019 3:00 am

Guys, I've been using PerfPRO Studio software for about 6 months for controlling my smart trainer. It is a very powerful desktop app with a 1-time license fee, similar in functionality to Trainer Road and so forth. It comes complete with a workout tracking component called PerfPRO Analyzer which, up until now, I've not paid much attention to, preferring to load my workouts into ST3. However I've now realised that it might make a pretty good alternative to ST3. From the PerfPRO website:

PerfPRO© Analyzer is a software application that allows athletes to log their workouts as well as create detailed training plans to help organize their goals. PerfPRO allows athletes to log all types of workouts (e.g., bike, run, swim, etc.) and is VERY powerful when it comes analyzing data from the various power devices. Athletes whom use a CompuTrainer™, Garmin™, Tacx™, PowerTap™, SRM™, iBike™, Velotron™ and many other power training devices are able to completely analyze all areas of a performance file. It is a complete performance analysis tool that can produce detailed statistical information on individual performances as well as overall progress. It can also produce many easy-to-understand reports and graphs, which allow you to better understand your progression. PerfPRO helps analyze your strengths, but more importantly it helps identify your weaknesses, which makes this software the perfect fit to your training needs.

From what I understand, it is also fine for sports that don't normally include power data as well e.g. running.

Note that if you don't need the smart trainer control, you can purchase the Analyzer component separately at a cheaper cost. There is a free 14 day trial period as well. See https://perfprostudio.com/Analyzer.aspx

I'm going to take a closer look at this when I get time, hopefully in the next week or so. Note that I don't have any affiliation with PerfPRO, other than as a customer.
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby Tisztul_A_Visztula » Tue May 21, 2019 5:43 am

gregoryx wrote:I'm in the "bummer" camp. For the same reasons others stated above: the reporting in ST3 is great - searchable, grouping, etc. But it was certainly inevitable. This was an athlete's app. Which is a lot like races (running, at least): used to be for athletes, now for finisher medals. No money in athletes.

ST folks, could you PLEASE release a version that doesn't require you being involved in order to reinstall it? Ideally, the plugins would become perpetual as well.

I've been gladly paying for ST online for a few years now - since the first release, whenever that was. But it's a far cry from ST3 for viewing and manipulating information. I'm searching for a viable alternative to ST3, but I fear MOBI maybe about as inferior as the rest. One thing I'm seeing is the tendency for apps to be more bike-focused than running-focused - like Golden Cheetah - which is just an annoyance when things are all mph instead of min-per-mile pace. Anyway... enough whining, I guess.

ST folks, release an unlocked version?

and anyone with a solution to the reporting problem, what are you going to? 'Cause it certainly isn't MOBI.

EDIT: Forgot about this deal-breaker (from another post): "All data in your online SportTracks account is backed up automatically. There is no need (and no way) to personally back up only your data in the website database."

NOPE, NOPE, NOPE, NOPE, NOPE. I don't want your assurance that you'll have my data for as long as that's convenient for you. What's the best-case scenario for a nice cloud-app? Acquisition! So let's say Google buys it... which history tells us means the product will be eliminated in a year or so. And the users and data abandoned. From an app with data that you cannot export. Awesome. Nope.


It is a good idea (see bold part of the quoted post), but I even went further starting some sort of bargaining. Since business is business.

See at viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18118
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby zacklaws » Tue May 21, 2019 8:15 am

fishyweb wrote:Guys, I've been using PerfPRO Studio software for about 6 months for controlling my smart trainer. It is a very powerful desktop app with a 1-time license fee, similar in functionality to Trainer Road and so forth. It comes complete with a workout tracking component called PerfPRO Analyzer which, up until now, I've not paid much attention to, preferring to load my workouts into ST3. However I've now realised that it might make a pretty good alternative to ST3. From the PerfPRO website:


PerfPRO Studio software is only any good if you are using an indoor trainer, most people using ST3 would probably need a package that does outdoor activities.
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby fishyweb » Tue May 21, 2019 4:19 pm

zacklaws wrote:
fishyweb wrote:Guys, I've been using PerfPRO Studio software for about 6 months for controlling my smart trainer. It is a very powerful desktop app with a 1-time license fee, similar in functionality to Trainer Road and so forth. It comes complete with a workout tracking component called PerfPRO Analyzer which, up until now, I've not paid much attention to, preferring to load my workouts into ST3. However I've now realised that it might make a pretty good alternative to ST3. From the PerfPRO website:


PerfPRO Studio software is only any good if you are using an indoor trainer, most people using ST3 would probably need a package that does outdoor activities.


Yep, that's what I thought as well, but seems that you and I were both wrong. The PerfPRO Analyzer component is key here. I've just imported an outdoor run and ride, and they both import fine. Seems that there is the same issue with Google Maps API that afflicted ST3 a few months ago, but I imagine that there will be a fix for this forthcoming (the dev is pretty responsive), and the stats look quite comprehensive. I need to dig a bit deeper to explore all of the potential, but I'd encourage others to also take a look via the free trial to get other opinions.
Steve
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby Tisztul_A_Visztula » Sat May 25, 2019 4:51 am

admin wrote:Someone who has more info on MTB or GC should chime in to help. We don't use either of those apps for obvious reasons, but my impression is they don't come close to "feature parity" versus the SportTracks online app, which does what ST3 does and a bunch more.

MTB is really basic - no gear tracking or performance modeling I think, no pool swim, no CIQ fields, running dynamics, weather imports... does it track indoor workouts either? afaik it's an open source hobby project done when the author has free time. GC is much more robust but definitely a "toolbox" type of app with a learning curve and tilts very heavy towards cycling power meter users.


Just the opposite way, GCheertah cannot import indoor activities at all if they have been logged to ST3 as manual entries, netiher via .tcx nor .fitlog.

On the other hand MTB can dot it via .fitlog.

Disclaimer: I have no thorough knowledge about MTB or GC, just to srtated to escape from ST3 and tested the different imports of the former two.
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby gregoryx » Sat May 25, 2019 7:26 pm

I tested both GC and MTB (as well as others) and found that GC wouldn't work as a log tool once I loaded 10 years of activities as it got too slow. The analysis tools are great, though; so I may use it to analyze portions of the data after finding the solution (currently likely MTB). MTB, OTOH, does a good job of showing years of data in groups. Not as a single list (not useful anyway); but as groups by year and/or month / etc. And in that format, it loads faster than ST3 and works well to view and search and such. There are more search / filter options than ST3 but they're different, so... not automatically making sense to me.
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