Training Load

by mechgt

Downloads: 12,931 (48) • Reviews: 18

Version:

2.0.7

Updated:

Aug 26, 2015

Fitness score reduces with increased fitness?

Fitness score reduces with increased fitness?

Postby Nigel Charman » Sun Apr 04, 2010 6:21 am

I am training for London Marathon. I am following the same schedule as I did last year. This year however, I am finding the sessions easier, and my heart rate during the sessions is lower. For instance yesterday I did my 24 mile run in 3 hrs, average heart rate 124, last year I did it in 3:02, heart rate 129. This means that Training load seems to be assuming a lower training impulse, and it is saying my fitness is lower, (70 vs. nearly 80 last year).
Ii is clear that my fatigue level is a lot lower, (and last year I got injured just at this time), but apart from that useful info, what use is a fitness measure that measures 'inverse' fitness?
The older I get, the faster I was.
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Postby gerhard » Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:31 am

Correct, using TRIMP, the plugin measures more something like the stress from training than fitness.

The plugin is also called TrainingLoad.
This is why cyclists are using Power meters to measure fitness in more absolute levels.
Supposedly, the trimp factors should be adjusted just to measure training stress.
Some explanations from TrainingPeaks, that makes WKO+ that has another measure (rTSS )for Running too:
http://home.trainingpeaks.com/articles/ ... nager.aspx
http://home.trainingpeaks.com/articles/ ... score.aspx

That said, I find the TRIMP calculations with its limitations to be an excellent tool to measure something close to fitness. My relative performance has not changed dramatically in a couple of years, which is one reason. However, it is the simplest way to measure the combined effects of running and cycling.

mechgt has considered something like GOVSS that can be considered as an adjusted pace for runners to, so it may be possible that the plugin will support changing fitness better in the future.
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Re: Fitness score reduces with increased fitness?

Postby HENNES » Sun Apr 04, 2010 11:16 am

Nigel Charman wrote:I am training for London Marathon. I am following the same schedule as I did last year. This year however, I am finding the sessions easier, and my heart rate during the sessions is lower. For instance yesterday I did my 24 mile run in 3 hrs, average heart rate 124, last year I did it in 3:02, heart rate 129. This means that Training load seems to be assuming a lower training impulse, and it is saying my fitness is lower, (70 vs. nearly 80 last year).
Ii is clear that my fatigue level is a lot lower, (and last year I got injured just at this time), but apart from that useful info, what use is a fitness measure that measures 'inverse' fitness?


Due to several months of injury related non running, I havent used the plugin for long time. So recalling from memory: it is measuring something like training stress score which is roughly heartrate times time. So a lower reading for running the same distance with lower heart rate (in less time) generates a lower score reading and thats good.
Last edited by HENNES on Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fitness score reduces with increased fitness?

Postby jibberjim » Sun Apr 04, 2010 11:45 am

Nigel Charman wrote:I am training for London Marathon. I am following the same schedule as I did last year. This year however, I am finding the sessions easier, and my heart rate during the sessions is lower. For instance yesterday I did my 24 mile run in 3 hrs, average heart rate 124, last year I did it in 3:02, heart rate 129. This means that Training load seems to be assuming a lower training impulse, and it is saying my fitness is lower, (70 vs. nearly 80 last year).
Ii is clear that my fatigue level is a lot lower, (and last year I got injured just at this time), but apart from that useful info, what use is a fitness measure that measures 'inverse' fitness?


CTL is not a measure of your performance - a CTL of 80 a year ago, and a CTL of 70 today merely says that you were working harder a year ago at the same stage. That's not surprising, if you've continued running the same paces, for the same duration, you would expect your CTL to reduce as you got fitter, because the stress you're placing on your body is less.

Consider an athlete who can run 10km in 1 hour all out, after a solid years training, he can run 15km in 1 hour all out. You wouldn't expect the same amount of stress if the athlete went out and ran 10km in an hour after the year. It would be a very easy run for the athlete.

A declining score for the same workout (24 miles in ~3 hours) is a demonstration of a fitness improvement, but it's also a demonstration that you've started making your workouts easier, rather than continuing to maintain the overload necessary to improve.

If you use Power on a bike, or pace on the run, you'll still see the same feature in the scores decreasing if you don't increase your training. Since the scores are related to your threshold power or pace. Basically they're calibrated so that 100 is always an all out effort for an hour.
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Re: Fitness score reduces with increased fitness?

Postby AlanBolton » Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:53 am

jibberjim wrote:CTL is not a measure of your performance - a CTL of 80 a year ago, and a CTL of 70 today merely says that you were working harder a year ago at the same stage. That's not surprising, if you've continued running the same paces, for the same duration, you would expect your CTL to reduce as you got fitter, because the stress you're placing on your body is less.


Thanks Jim, I've just been looking for a simple explanation of chronic training load - I think it just clicked!

Alan
resistance training exercises - great for all ages
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Re: Fitness score reduces with increased fitness?

Postby the5krunner » Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:57 am

jonal wrote:I have to train a lot more hard to gain more fitness so that I can perform well in the next marathon race.


hmm not quite i think. although i could just be arguing semantics here but...

you have to train as hard as you were before ..BUT your goalposts/comparison-point move as you get better. so you could run faster this year at 4:00 min/km but that could actually be easier than a year ago when you ran 4:02 as a less fit person.

because 'hardness' is relative not absolute.
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Re: Fitness score reduces with increased fitness?

Postby doelauw » Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:12 am

Don't focus to hard on exact nummbers. The relation and progression should be enough to dedtermain your training quality and it's effects. It's a tool and not science. What could be science is training stress. Just work with this plugina nd you wil learn over time by monitoring it's values and your fitness level opinion.

Example .... I know to run better with a TSB of -10 then -3 ..... :-)
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