Training Load

by mechgt

Downloads: 12,931 (48) • Reviews: 18

Version:

2.0.7

Updated:

Aug 26, 2015

Enhancement request: separate activity TRIMPs and ATL/CTL f

Enhancement request: separate activity TRIMPs and ATL/CTL f

Postby smaryka » Tue Sep 22, 2009 5:15 pm

Currently the training load plugin adds up all the activities to compute running CTL and ATL, regardless of whether My Activities is selected at the top or My Activities: Cycling is selected. Also, ATL and CTL factors are not configurable by sport that I can see.

I've been reading a bit about peaking and tapering based on projected TSS/TRIMP values, and I'm seeing more and more how important it is for triathletes to analyse their run and bike data apart from each other. It would be a great enhancement to be able to graph and see the values for different sports separately.

thanks!
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Re: Enhancement request: separate activity TRIMPs and ATL/C

Postby mechgt » Tue Sep 22, 2009 6:41 pm

smaryka wrote:Currently the training load plugin adds up all the activities to compute running CTL and ATL, regardless of whether My Activities is selected at the top or My Activities: Cycling is selected. Also, ATL and CTL factors are not configurable by sport that I can see.

I've been reading a bit about peaking and tapering based on projected TSS/TRIMP values, and I'm seeing more and more how important it is for triathletes to analyse their run and bike data apart from each other. It would be a great enhancement to be able to graph and see the values for different sports separately.

thanks!

haha, this is already implemented :) Try changing the 'Filter Charts' tickbox on the settings page and see if that does anything for you (sorry, I couldn't think of a better name for it.) It won't let you compare multiple sports at once, but it'll just show you your 'run CTL' or your 'bike CTL' etc. It will calculate your CTL/ATL/TSB based on the category selected up top. Let me know if that's what you're after.

Maybe I should rename the checkbox to something like 'Sport-specific CTL/ATL' or something like that.
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Postby smaryka » Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:41 am

Ah, I had wondered what that checkbox meant! Excellent, thanks.

How about being able to have a different ATL constant for different sports? Is that already there too and I'm missing it?
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Postby mechgt » Wed Sep 23, 2009 7:11 am

Nope, the two time constants (ATL & CTL) cover everything... they're not separated out by sports or categories.
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Postby Stumpjumper68 » Thu Sep 24, 2009 5:58 am

You can easily change the ATL and CTL in the right corner on the training load view, just hit the blue triangle and go to settings. There's no need to go back to preferences.
You can also define different HF-Zones for each categorie with different factors (Trimp running,Trimp cycling etc.)
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Postby racerfern » Thu Sep 24, 2009 7:43 am

smaryka wrote:How about being able to have a different ATL constant for different sports? Is that already there too and I'm missing it?


I don't think you should ever be able to separate the various exercises that make up your exercise load (TSB, CTL or ATL) because you can't somehow remove any training load from your body.

You could review where the load came from by singling out the TSS/TRIMP scores of one type of activity to see how much it contributed to your current training status.
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Postby mechgt » Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:03 am

racerfern wrote:I don't think you should ever be able to separate the various exercises that make up your exercise load (TSB, CTL or ATL) because you can't somehow remove any training load from your body.

Yeah, your body's ATL/CTL is a product of all activities that you do; if it's all running, or all cycling, or a mixture of several sports.

The idea (and reason for the checkbox) was to be able to separate out how much you've been training or participating in each sport (or category). So if I've been cycling all summer, and am starting to train for a marathon, I thought it'd be nice to be able to see my 'running load'.
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Postby racerfern » Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:26 am

Then like in the Training Planner you could select the activity in question ie., running and look at the TSS/TRIMP scores for that type of activity, although as I said the TSB/CTL/ATL will always be cumulative.
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Postby smaryka » Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:37 pm

I just wrote a blog post on why you'd want to separate run from bike ATL/CTL, based on my personal experience at Ironman Lake Placid (and now trying to taper well for Ironman Kona).

Basically, running is harder on your body and may take longer to recover from (hence a 10-day instead of a 7-day ATL for example). For peaking and tapering purposes for triathletes, being able to split the two sports apart to see their TSB separately is useful, so that the CTL drop and TSB gain isn't weighted more heavily to one sport than to the other.
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Postby racerfern » Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:12 pm

What you're saying makes perfect sense except that your body can't differentiate where the wear and tear comes from. It just knows it's either beat up or feeling great.

I think the key might still be to look at TSS for different activities.
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Postby jibberjim » Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:21 pm

racerfern wrote:What you're saying makes perfect sense except that your body can't differentiate where the wear and tear comes from. It just knows it's either beat up or feeling great.


The fatigue and fitness gained by handcycling and running are worth tracking seperately, whilst part of the fitness and fatigue covers both sports. A major part of both are totally unique to the sport, so both seperate and combined need to be looked at.
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Postby smaryka » Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:24 pm

Fernando, I hear what you're saying. I already track TSS for both sports, together and separately. And if you're fatigued, you're fatigued, that's for sure. But leg muscles for example are used differently in cycling vs. running, so I disagree with your assertion that "the body can't tell".

An overall TSB score of +30 where +25 of that comes from the bike and only +5 for the run means that you've likely tapered too much on the bike and not enough for the run. And keeping ATL as a blanket number for all sports means that the 7 days you've given yourself as a fatigue factor in cycling would also (wrongly) apply to running. A long run that you did 7 days ago would stop factoring in your ATL, when in reality it might be as long as 10 days to fully recover from it.

All I'm saying is it would be nice to create separate constants for different activities. Weightlifting, running, cycling and swimming all have different impacts on the body and different fatigue and fitness factors. It would be great if the Training Load plug-in allowed a customisable ATL and CTL for each sport. This kind of specific analysis is all part of the "art and science" of peaking and tapering.
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Postby racerfern » Thu Sep 24, 2009 5:44 pm

OK, I see your point. I guess it's just not as obvious to someone that just cycles.

Anyways, I don't know of a program that separates out TSB etc. The training load and training planner appear to be the ones most capable of doing it because you can filter categories.

Let's see where it leads us.

Thanks for the lesson.
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Postby Boomi » Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:45 pm

Thanks for share good post keep it up!!!
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Re: Enhancement request: separate activity TRIMPs and ATL/C

Postby vaajin » Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:05 pm

I think this query had already been solved. You can apply the settings by unchecking the Filter Charts in the Settings tab and see whether you get your issue cleared. Afterwards, you can see your bike CTL and run CTL and all that. Anyway, the feature of comparing numerous sports all at once is yet to come.
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