Training Load vs Firstbeat Athlete

[Candive]

Training Load is one of the Sporttrack's plugins I constantly reference. My Garmin 910xt also records Training Effect and can load data into Firstbeat Athlete. I have yet to decide to invest in this program since I am currently working through a specific training program using TL to monitor my progress. I took advantage of the two week Athlete trial but it wasn't long enough to determine if I really needed the program.

I was just wondering if any of you use Firstbeat Athlete in conjunction with ST Training Load. Firstbeat provides a coaching program and it would be interesting to know if you use Training Load to validate the Athlete system. Does it follow the same principals? Has Athlete helped you reach new PRs? Or would owning Firstbeat be superfluous since Training Load helps you achieve the same objectives.

[mcoumans]

I am using FirstBeat Athlete as well, but I only take some values and input them into Sporttracks.

EPOC peak
VO2 peak
Ventilation peak
Training Effect
VO2max
MET max

Still undetermined what and how...

[Candive]

Mcoumans,
Thanks for the feedback. My interest is specifically the Firstbeat Athlete coaching program. Do you follow the program and has it been effective in your training? By following the program and loading the same activity data into ST, the Training Load plugin will give you a visual representation of your progress. I'm interested to determine if Firstbeat follows the same principals of build and taper as outlined by the Target Date Influence chart which TL generates.Your insight and opinion on FBA would be greatly appreciated.

[mcoumans]

Sorry for the delay, holidays

I'm not using the coaching programme, just using FB to collect data to input in ST. Still not clear what and how I can use them.
My use of ST started in ocotber last year, so fairly novice still. Must find out how TrainingLoad works and how to build an efficient training schedule.

[Candive]

Hi Macoumans,
I myself have only seriously started using Training Load in September of last year to monitor a specific run training program I'm currently following (hence the interest in FB Coach). I'll be finished in a couple of weeks and will post my results on this forum with TL graph for users to review. That way we can all learn together!

[the5krunner]

Mcoumans,
Thanks for the feedback. My interest is specifically the Firstbeat Athlete coaching program. Do you follow the program and has it been effective in your training? By following the program and loading the same activity data into ST, the Training Load plugin will give you a visual representation of your progress. I'm interested to determine if Firstbeat follows the same principals of build and taper as outlined by the Target Date Influence chart which TL generates.Your insight and opinion on FBA would be greatly appreciated.

I am not following ATHLETE. However I am looking at it.

1. you cannot enter a race date. It is not possible to taper with either TL or FBA
2. To me it does seem similar to TL
3. No recovery analysis is done in FBA. It is done in the more expensive professional product 'SPORTS'
4. FBA is training analysis and training planning only
5. I am not clear if FBA just use HR zones (%hrmax at any rate) or if it also really uses the RR/HRV data it imports to estimate load. I imagine that it does use it.
6. Bearing in mind point 5. it seems broadly similar in its use of EPOC for a similar underlying mechanism as TL's TRIMPs (similar but different)
7. Training analysis is no better than ST.
8. The training planning is a little more interesting. As I think you realise. I've not really looked into it but I sometimes look to see what it recommends my next session to be (in terms of TE - training effect). It often is not what I expect. It sometimes says train much higher than I would have thought and other times there are longer easier periods than I would expect. Then again, who is right me or them !! or neither of us !!!
9. The training planning also dynamically takes into account your weekly hours and adjusts load accordingly
10. You can't get any non RR data into it. so if you swim or use some cycling device that can't get that data then you have to estimate TE for that days' session. That's a bit of a faff. But you have to do a similar thing with TL if you choose to enter swim TRIMPs.

Really what I am trying to do is to find some way of easily getting swim data and moreover swim RR data into one package that can provide a training load and TRAINING TAPER type functionality. Someone will probably tell me that trainignpeaks or polar flow can do it. I haven't found my solution yet. (TICKR-X HRM helps)

[Candive]

Dear 5K,
Thanks for your comments on Firstbeat Athlete (FBA). I had looked at it a couple of years ago and couldn’t remember if you could set a target race date. Your first point confirmed my suspicion. Rather than a race focussed coaching program, FBA provides more of a general conditioning plan. I suppose you could use it in preparation for a race but then implement your own tapering program 1-3 weeks prior to a major race.

Your recent article on using FBA as a tool to suggest recovery days is a unique use of the program. Because FBA changes dynamically, based on your own workload, you could follow another training program and use FBA as a secondary check for future planned workout effort or rest (As you suggest in your article). http://the5krunner.com/2015/01/08/should-i-train-today-how-to-decide-using-firstbeat-sporttracks-bioforcehrv-garmin920xt/

As for you key objective of getting RR data from swimming - I must say I admire your determination. I’ve read your article on TICKR-X HRM. It’s an impressive piece of kit but unlike you, I don’t have the inclination or time to merge HR data to my swim Activities at this stage. I’m happy to wait and hope Garmin will come up with a similar solution for their triathlon and swim watches to be “complete” in capturing heart rate and RR data from all types of activities. I can’t see how they can ignore this development.
Thanks again for your input.

[the5krunner]

Dear 5K,
Thanks for your comments on Firstbeat Athlete (FBA). I had looked at it a couple of years ago and couldn’t remember if you could set a target race date. Your first point confirmed my suspicion. Rather than a race focussed coaching program, FBA provides more of a general conditioning plan. I suppose you could use it in preparation for a race but then implement your own tapering program 1-3 weeks prior to a major race.

Your recent article on using FBA as a tool to suggest recovery days is a unique use of the program. Because FBA changes dynamically, based on your own workload, you could follow another training program and use FBA as a secondary check for future planned workout effort or rest (As you suggest in your article). http://the5krunner.com/2015/01/08/should-i-train-today-how-to-decide-using-firstbeat-sporttracks-bioforcehrv-garmin920xt/

As for you key objective of getting RR data from swimming - I must say I admire your determination. I’ve read your article on TICKR-X HRM. It’s an impressive piece of kit but unlike you, I don’t have the inclination or time to merge HR data to my swim Activities at this stage. I’m happy to wait and hope Garmin will come up with a similar solution for their triathlon and swim watches to be “complete” in capturing heart rate and RR data from all types of activities. I can’t see how they can ignore this development.
Thanks again for your input.

Yes, quite !!

I read on the garmin forum yesterday of a rumour of an imminent HRM-SWIM / caching belt. I would be delighted if we get that. although the next day I would then realise that , really, I would prefer to have a wrist based device and then not be happy about the absence of that !! then when I got that I would realise that it did not have RR data and want that. then when I got that I would realise that I was too old for all this sporty nonsense

in seriousness tho: the tickr-x is good for getting a baseline down for an average swim set. workout the average trimps and then just add it manually for a month or so in ST / trainingload. Much easier. I'm just about to start emabarking on putting manual values into FIRSTBEAT ATHLETE as well...gulp. - and to answer your point above FBA looks interesting for automatically planning BUILD phases of training. Maybe BASE too - am doing that at present but it keeps pushing me too hard