Training Load

by mechgt

Downloads: 12,931 (48) • Reviews: 18

Version:

2.0.7

Updated:

Aug 26, 2015

Retrospectively Using Training Load without HR Data

Retrospectively Using Training Load without HR Data

Postby richardsimkiss » Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:57 am

Hi All...

I'm a runner, (with the occasional bike ride) and have my training log in Sporttracks for the past 5 years, during which time I have used my heart rate monitor on and off.

Having finally upgraded to the full version of ST3 (from ST2.1 - yes I know I'm well behind!), I could finally get hold of Training Load and assess my training in far more detail... with Training Load downloaded I set about finally buying a new battery for my HR chest strap - and away we go!

So... I've set up TL, and it seems to be working as I'd expect - my problem/dilemma comes in that currently my training load is pretty much as it has been for the past couple of months (give or take a few tapers/races), but because I've not used my HRM since June, Training Load assumes I've not been training during this time. If you look at the chart this therefore impacts all the charts, i.e. ATL/CTL are climbing rapidly, TSB is dropping rapdily - and I suspect the values are not true ATL/CTL & TSB values... (although accurate as if I only started training at the start of September after a 3-4 month layoff).

Is there any way I can 'put a stake in the ground' and say "start with ATL/CTL & TSB values of XX, XX & XX, from XXXX date" and use some form of assumed value? (and if so, any suggestions on what I should use based on this).

Or alternatively... Could I go through all of my previous workouts and manually enter an average HR estimate for the workout and TL would be able to work with this data? Or does TL require full HR data throughout the workout in order to function correctly? The reason I say this is that most of my training over the past few months has been steady paced base building (coming back from injury), and as such the HR's would generally be fairly consistent and inline with average pace for the session.

Any further thoughts on how I could make my 'current' Training Load values more representative of the fact that I've been training fairly consistently over the past several months?

All input greatly appreciated guys/gals.
Attachments
ST-TL-Graph.png
Training Load Graph - Partial HR Data
ST-TL-Graph.png (227.07 KiB) Viewed 7731 times
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Re: Retrospectively Using Training Load without HR Data

Postby the5krunner » Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:55 am

:-) this is going to be fun for you.

1. check but i think you only have to go back 45 days from present (looks like you already have 2 weeks in there so only need to go back a month from there)
2. you can enter avg hr as you describe
3. alternatively you can enter a trimp for each exercise..i guess people could give you general trimps per minute for each kind of run
4. i think also in the training load config page there is an 'initial ctl' and an 'initial atl' setting...that MIGHT be what you are after for setting a startign value...i don't know what those settings are for off hand you'd have to RTFM for that.
5. if the initial value are what you want then look at my other graph in my recent taper post and see what corresponds very broadly to a value for you at a similar stage of your training. i do triathlon tho.

or you could just leave it a while! the impact of your training on the blue line is pretty quick....that would be ok much quicker than 45 days (again RTFM there for exact value I can't recall off-hand!!)

your trimps look like you are working fairly hard in your sessions. with that in mind i would expect your blue line to readily get up past 50/60. probably higher.

good luck ! (I'd leave it a while)
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Re: Retrospectively Using Training Load without HR Data

Postby richardsimkiss » Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:07 am

Thanks for your response 5krunner,

So I've gone back through and estimated avg HR values based on 'Daniels Tables' paces Vs HR's for a VDOT of 64 (a smidge below my current VDOT) - I'd like the think these were of reasonable enough accuracy.

A couple of problems...
1) having selected all the 'recalculate' features (I'm not sure which I needed to use so did them all), training load has updated some of the workouts, recognising the average HR, and assigning a TRIMP score to the session. However it's missed maybe 60% of the activities... and I'm not sure why? The data is seemingly no different between the ones it has assigned a TRIMP value for, and those it hasn't... and on screen the only thing I can see is that those activities in the bottom window which don't have a TRIMP score are in italics.

2) I went back as far as the start of August - well, just before actually... now on my second run which I've assigned an avg HR to... a 11.8mi easy run at 6:52/mi (139bpm / 73%), it's scored a whopping trimp value of 342! Now is this an erroneus error... or is this because it believes I haven't done any training since June, and an 11mi run after few months break is considered to put a massive stress on the body?

Problem 1) is my biggest pondering.... I'm just not sure how/why it'll accept the manually entered HR values for some activities... but not all.

The simple answer of course is just to be patient and I know it'll sort itself out once I have 45days of accurate data... that said, I'm impatient, and was interested to understand it such that I could perhaps use the data to shape my taper for a Half Marathon in late October.

Thanks again for your help, any further help/advice/knowledge on the above would be very much appreciated.
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Re: Retrospectively Using Training Load without HR Data

Postby richardsimkiss » Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:41 am

Oooh - worry not! I've found the solution... found this nugget of golden info from mechgt in another thread:

Go to Training Load settings to inspect your settings for that category (look at the associated zone factors). Something must have changed with your factors when adding the new zone. There's a Reset Category button there that will automatically apply the calculated factors as determined by Training Load unless you have specific values to assign.


Basically in training load settings, I deselected 'single zone' and 'dynamic zone factors', then clicked on the relevant HR zones - for some reason the factoring was well off (was obvious looking at the TRIMP curve that appeared), so a simple click on reset category, and rechecking of single zone and dynamic zone boxes... et voila... all is hunky dory!

(I appreciate I'm probably telling everyone something they already know - but sharing my findings incase some poor idiot ends up in the same situation as me).

What a cracking plugin!
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Re: Retrospectively Using Training Load without HR Data

Postby mechgt » Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:47 am

richardsimkiss wrote:1) having selected all the 'recalculate' features (I'm not sure which I needed to use so did them all), training load has updated some of the workouts, recognising the average HR, and assigning a TRIMP score to the session. However it's missed maybe 60% of the activities... and I'm not sure why? The data is seemingly no different between the ones it has assigned a TRIMP value for, and those it hasn't... and on screen the only thing I can see is that those activities in the bottom window which don't have a TRIMP score are in italics.

Recalculate:
Selecting TRIMP will recalculated the TRIMP only for the currently selected activity in the lower list. Similar for TSS.
Logbook will recalculate all activities in the logbook for the currently selected 'mode' (TRIMP / TSS).

Try selecting an activity that's in italics (which means TRIMP= 0) and hit Recalculate > TRIMP. Focus on getting this activity squared away (maybe it doesn't have an avg hr, or time?). You'll probably figure out a bunch of activities after you figure out one.

FYI, you can also enter TRIMP=nnn anywhere in the notes field if you prefer and think you have a good idea of what the trimp should be for a particular activity. This is an alternative to entering time and avg hr.

richardsimkiss wrote:2) I went back as far as the start of August - well, just before actually... now on my second run which I've assigned an avg HR to... a 11.8mi easy run at 6:52/mi (139bpm / 73%), it's scored a whopping trimp value of 342! Now is this an erroneus error... or is this because it believes I haven't done any training since June, and an 11mi run after few months break is considered to put a massive stress on the body?

TRIMP is calculated from that isolated activity, no historical info. Your HR will tell the history; if 11 miles is super hard because you've not done this before it'll be reflected in HR and time.
Enhance SportTracks with Training Load, Fit Plan and more plugins at mechgt.com. Garmin FR310XT & iBike iPro
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Re: Retrospectively Using Training Load without HR Data

Postby the5krunner » Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:42 pm

richardsimkiss wrote:Thanks for your response 5krunner,

2) I went back as far as the start of August - well, just before actually... now on my second run which I've assigned an avg HR to... a 11.8mi easy run at 6:52/mi (139bpm / 73%), it's scored a whopping trimp value of 342! Now is this an erroneus error... or is this because it believes I haven't done any training since June, and an 11mi run after few months break is considered to put a massive stress on the body?



you are welcome

the trimp of 342 is an error. trimp is only because of what you have done on that day so other days are irrelevant. it could be a nasty heart rate spike (HR reading error) or your zones are wrong. I did a 1 hour/1.25 80%HR a couple of days ago and from memory it was 130 give or take 10. I can find out if you want but its boradly right.
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Re: Retrospectively Using Training Load without HR Data

Postby King of Waffles » Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:35 pm

Alternatively, use the Power Runner plugin, also by mechgt. It results in TSS values that are pretty good, and comparable to TRIMP. I have occaisonally encountered a weird TSS for a run, particularly on courses with a steep downhill (maybe uphill too) grade. For that kind of course, TSS tends to be quite a bit higher than TRIMP for the same run. This does make sense if you consider that when you run down hill, your heart rate drops with respect to your pace but running downhill is still a significant stress on your body. TSS takes this into account (maybe too much) but TRIMP doesn't.
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