Training Load

by mechgt

Downloads: 12,931 (48) • Reviews: 18

Version:

2.0.7

Updated:

Aug 26, 2015

Understanding TrainingLoad from a real life example

Understanding TrainingLoad from a real life example

Postby the5krunner » Fri Aug 10, 2012 5:27 pm

I wrote the article below to help a newcomer to TrainingLoad understand what all the metrics mean (which has been done very well before by others) but more importantly how you can then use those metrics to adjust your training.

I look at a build up to a major race, which started well, before over-training caused a significant injury...which wasted months of training.

http://the5krunner.com/2012/07/14/training-load-plugin-for-sporttracks-interpretation-and-use-in-a-real-life-example/

If there are any inaccuracies please let me know and I will revise.
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Re: Understanding TrainingLoad from a real life example

Postby mechgt » Sat Aug 11, 2012 8:55 am

Very cool article, I like it! It does a very good job at telling the story throughout a training period leading up to race day. 8)

Looks like you had 3 of your relatively large runs (high TRIMP) immediately after the 0-date (where orange line dives and crosses 0), and it looks like those contributed about -10 TSB points at that time. Do you think if those higher intensity runs were moved a week or so earlier - maybe traded with some less intense runs, that could have been a solution to a higher TSB on race day and thus a better performance?
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Re: Understanding TrainingLoad from a real life example

Postby the5krunner » Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:02 am

I was following a plan I had used before that helped me put in a very good performance. So I was hoping for a better performance if I followed it again AND DID A BIT extra. So, yes, it was all was too intense really.

i think the lessons are to learn your body's breaking points. and that is one area where TL can really help.
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Re: Understanding TrainingLoad from a real life example

Postby ksherman » Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:14 pm

I agree with mechgt, a very good article on my favourite plugin - TL. The whole tapering process has many variables that TL is not designed to factor in and so TL can only ever provide a guide.
Even outside of the taper there is no facility to have sleep influence the ATL or CTL numbers, yet we all know that sleep is the best recovery mechanism. So if in the TL settings we had a range of 7:00-8:00, then a sleep of 6:00 could increase the day before's impact on ATL by say 16% (7/6) but has no influence on the CTL. Even the following day could be impacted. If sleep was 9:00 then that could reduce by 11% (8/9). This could also be aligned with waking HR for those who record it.
The whole concept of a 7 day recovery is also only an indication, a session generating a TRIMP of say 50 might take 3 days to recover from while a session of 300 might take 10 days.

In the taper each athlete will respond differently to being "inactive" based on their years of training, muscle types composition to think of just two factors. Older athletes lose strength far more quickly than the young but also retain their aerobic fitness better if they are lifelong athletes.
Plus there is the concept of 'rhythm' whereby the muscle memory needs to be maintained.
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Re: Understanding TrainingLoad from a real life example

Postby BigMike » Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:18 pm

I always hoped that Heart Rate Variability - something that could be assessed using R-R data collected by some heart rate monitors - would be a practical way to assess where I'm at with recovery based on 'hard data' instead of general modeling. But, HR variability doesn't seem to be interpretable with tools/skill available even to the pretty serious user.

I still think that at a macro level, a simple influence diagram gets it about right for tapering for a longer endurance event. For the competitor with a crowded schedule, the influence diagram for one target date is going to be at odds with the curve for a later date - it is trying to balance these different recommendations that makes it an art more than a science.
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Re: Understanding TrainingLoad from a real life example

Postby Stumpjumper68 » Fri Aug 31, 2012 3:54 pm

@ksherman
I recognized something different for myself. I ussually sleep 6 hours but if I sleep only 5 hours I can produce much more power on that date. If I sleep more than 6 hours, let say 8, I'm not able to give as much power as I can give
with less sleephours. Feels like I'm just too tired.
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Re: Understanding TrainingLoad from a real life example

Postby mechgt » Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:17 pm

Stumpjumper68 wrote:@ksherman
I recognized something different for myself. I ussually sleep 6 hours but if I sleep only 5 hours I can produce much more power on that date. If I sleep more than 6 hours, let say 8, I'm not able to give as much power as I can give
with less sleephours. Feels like I'm just too tired.


So your personal observation is completely opposite from what one would expect to happen? How about that.
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Re: Understanding TrainingLoad from a real life example

Postby Stumpjumper68 » Sat Sep 01, 2012 4:15 pm

Maybe I'm not human? :shock:
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Re: Understanding TrainingLoad from a real life example

Postby the5krunner » Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:08 am

Stumpjumper68 wrote:@ksherman
I recognized something different for myself. I ussually sleep 6 hours but if I sleep only 5 hours I can produce much more power on that date. If I sleep more than 6 hours, let say 8, I'm not able to give as much power as I can give
with less sleephours. Feels like I'm just too tired.



there's also a thing with sleep cycles. these are 4 hours or so for most people.

if recovery is not consistent through sleep and in fact varies through a cycle (a not unreasonable assumption/guess) then maybe your cycle could be longer (5 hours) ?

any sleep over and above the length of a single cycle (or multiple complete cycles) may not be as beneficial as you might imagine.

or i could be totally wrong. either way it's off-topic :-)
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Re: Understanding TrainingLoad from a real life example

Postby EPP » Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:16 pm

@the5krunner, great article. It helped me loads trying to get my head around the output.
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Re: Understanding TrainingLoad from a real life example

Postby the5krunner » Fri Mar 11, 2016 9:04 am

mechgt wrote:
Stumpjumper68 wrote:@ksherman
I recognized something different for myself. I ussually sleep 6 hours but if I sleep only 5 hours I can produce much more power on that date. If I sleep more than 6 hours, let say 8, I'm not able to give as much power as I can give
with less sleephours. Feels like I'm just too tired.


So your personal observation is completely opposite from what one would expect to happen? How about that.


am looking at a super-cool product called EMFIT QS ... PROPER sleep analysis, nothing to wear on the body. Hopefully this will flll in all the missing gaps around this subject
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Re: Understanding TrainingLoad from a real life example

Postby gregoryx » Tue May 17, 2016 3:04 pm

@the5krunner, any insight on importing EmfitQS data into ST3?
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Re: Understanding TrainingLoad from a real life example

Postby the5krunner » Sat Dec 22, 2018 5:47 am

qs emfit can be linked to training peaks. TBH I'm not even sure what data it pushes up there
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Re: Understanding TrainingLoad from a real life example

Postby gregoryx » Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:15 pm

Talk about a long time between posts. LOL

I like the QS Emfit premise - and I've been using it for a couple of years. But really not sure about the value of it, as is often the case.
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Re: Understanding TrainingLoad from a real life example

Postby the5krunner » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:27 am

gregoryx wrote:Talk about a long time between posts. LOL

I like the QS Emfit premise - and I've been using it for a couple of years. But really not sure about the value of it, as is often the case.


the delay reflects the development activity on st3.1 ;-)

i reckon emfit is accurate on the READINGS. or can be.

so it's then " what do you do with the insights offered?' and 'do the insight reflect science or anything useful'

i certainly like the track of HRV through the night.
going to sleep hrv vs waking hrv MUST surely be some measure of adaptation
integrated recovery i like
i like the track of the waking/sleeping hrv over very extended periods (>1 year) it matches the load from trainign cycles to some degree. but i'm finding in the super longterm that i'm not boucning back enough by that measure. perhaps i need to taper more
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Re: Understanding TrainingLoad from a real life example

Postby gregoryx » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:40 pm

That sounds about right: probably accurate information; but hard to be sure how to use it.

I've gathered so much various data over time (sleep as just one component) but none of it completely predicts / matches how I "feel" at any given time. Doing the right work at the right time is super important. My conclusion from all the data is that learning how to appreciate that feeling is the real goal. All the tools and data have helped me understand how much the body is changing all the time; but learning to "feel" it seems the most valuable tool of all.
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Re: Understanding TrainingLoad from a real life example

Postby the5krunner » Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:16 pm

gregoryx wrote: feeling is the real goal. All the tools and data have helped me understand how much the body is changing all the time; but learning to "feel" it seems the most valuable tool of all.


yep. i think i started out training by FEEL. Realised it MUST be rubbish. but then have come around to what you say (on the whole)

interesting emfit experiment: if you ever have sleeping tablets see what happens. I rarely use them (zopiclone in UK) but when i do i sleep like a baby and wake up feeling generally good. but HRV flatlines or declines. well, i thought it was interesting ;-)
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Re: Understanding TrainingLoad from a real life example

Postby gregoryx » Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:56 pm

Interesting. I've wondered what Emfit would show if I took something. I find that my sleep is worse with alcohol - though I may fall asleep faster - and Emfit agrees on that. But sometimes nights with crazy dreams that I feel like kept me up show as a really good night's sleep on Emfit. Perhaps a small emotional element that isn't overall consistent with the night's sleep.
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