Training Load

by mechgt

Downloads: 12,931 (48) • Reviews: 18

Version:

2.0.7

Updated:

Aug 26, 2015

Need help understanding values

Need help understanding values

Postby Coach-Z » Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:23 am

Hi...


I've been using Sport Tracks for some time now and have amassed a fair amount of information since August 2011...


I've recently been trying to get at grasp on the Training Load software, but it is really confusing...

Ive been reading this post which kinda explains it, but I'm still confused... It's seems to be such a great piece of software, but the mere fact that I don't know how to use it, really bugs me....


I would greatly appreciate if one of you experts out there would take a look at some screen shots and tell me what it is that I'm looking at.

First of all some information regarding me...

33 years old, runner, part time triathlete.

I work out a lot... and when i work out it's mostly at a high effort... restitution training, aka taking it easy just doesnt work for me..
This is my Endomondo profile:
http://www.endomondo.com/workouts/user/69

I run marathons, hopefully one each week, but usually I'll skip a week, so its once every two weeks.

Right now I'm training for a 100K ultra coming up april 14th which I'm really excited about :-)

here's a few screen dump of my Training Load window with forecast turned on. I've zoomed out to get you a better look.

Training Load all values turned on:
Image

CTL and ATL turned on:
Image

CTL and TSB turned on:
Image


So what are we seeing here? i get the numbers at the bottom right corner...

My TSB is low... its been negative for at long time, +1 is actually a high number for me..
A low TSB means in my case, that I'm probably to fatiqued and "over trained"...

My ATL is at 80, is that high??

then theres CTL, which is at 78, I'm guessing this is high, but I'm not sure...


There a button you can press to activate some lines called low, middle, high, and finally Epic :-D... kinda cool... but you can move the charts up and down??

In this picture I've set each graph to zero at the bottom, which I assume is what you're supposed to do... Does this mean that Training Load thinks that I'm epicly fit 8) ??

Image






Hoping for some help from you guys.
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Re: Need help understanding values

Postby doelauw » Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:54 am

Ok I can help you out a bit. There is one basic major rule of training load, there is no good or bad value. Why? It's very personal. allow me to explain.

TSB, Training Stress Balance.
This number indicates your "stress" level. What does this mean for you? You can learn by training what your "optimum" is. It might be the case that you notice beeing fatigue at a TSB of -10 ... or maybe -50. I've noticed for myself that I perform "better" with a tsb score of -4 or more.

CTL, current training level
A number to indicate how "fit" you are, basicly how "trained" you are. There is no hard number like "you can run a marathon if you reach 60". It's very personal. When you train you improve and when you don't you lose. CTL is a number to "monitor" you fitness level and allow you to understand why you perform better or worse. Also does CTL allow you to make sure you don't train to "hard" or to "light". A tool to improve!

TRIMP
Number to show how "hard" the training was for you. It's based on HR.

Moving graphs
It's a sporttracks feature to allow graph alignment.

How this clears a bunch of your questions. I find training load the best tool to monitor my fitness. I love how I can "see" results in my fitness.
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Re: Need help understanding values

Postby mechgt » Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:50 pm

Regarding the low, high, epic zones...
Those are tied to the left Y axis which represents TRIMP/TSS, whereas your other values (CTL/ATL, TSB) are tied to right axes. So, this would refer to an Epic activity where you hit a very high TRIMP score, not your current fitness level.
Enhance SportTracks with Training Load, Fit Plan and more plugins at mechgt.com. Garmin FR310XT & iBike iPro
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Re: Need help understanding values

Postby BigMike » Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:13 am

I blogged a little about how I read the TrainingLoad graphs on my blog, maybe it will help ...

http://mikeonfoot.blogspot.com/2011/11/ ... r-not.html

Mike
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Re: Need help understanding values

Postby Burnt Toast » Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:57 am

Have you played around with your trimp factors for your HR zones?

I've read that a one hour all out race's TRIMP score should add up to a 100 TRIMP. By looking at your" Epic" 22 mile training workouts, I'm thinking that your HR factors may be too high at the lower HR ranges which turns those much slower then racing paced training runs into an all out three hour race. Of course I could be completely off on that.
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Re: Need help understanding values

Postby mechgt » Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:45 am

Burnt Toast wrote:Have you played around with your trimp factors for your HR zones?

I've read that a one hour all out race's TRIMP score should add up to a 100 TRIMP. By looking at your" Epic" 22 mile training workouts, I'm thinking that your HR factors may be too high at the lower HR ranges which turns those much slower then racing paced training runs into an all out three hour race. Of course I could be completely off on that.


100 points = 1 hour race pace is TSS 'rules', not TRIMP. TRIMP and TSS are not readily interchangable even though the values are sometimes close. By using HR, for better or worse TRIMP will natively include indirect and environmental factors. For example outdoor temperature (think HR in winter vs. summer while running/riding at same pace), current rest level (HR responds differently when well rested vs. a huge activity the day prior). These items aren't necessarily mincing the details, they can sometimes produce noticeable differences.

You can move your HR values lower (like Burnt Toast said) to put TRIMP on a different scale if you wish, but I would only suggest that if you have a good reason. The default values should produce very good results.

In any case, the default values presented by Training Load will likely not present a 100 TRIMP for a 1 hour race (should be a bit higher), whereas TSS (assuming FTP is setup properly) should.
Enhance SportTracks with Training Load, Fit Plan and more plugins at mechgt.com. Garmin FR310XT & iBike iPro
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Re: Need help understanding values

Postby Burnt Toast » Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:30 pm

mechgt wrote:
Burnt Toast wrote:Have you played around with your trimp factors for your HR zones?

I've read that a one hour all out race's TRIMP score should add up to a 100 TRIMP. By looking at your" Epic" 22 mile training workouts, I'm thinking that your HR factors may be too high at the lower HR ranges which turns those much slower then racing paced training runs into an all out three hour race. Of course I could be completely off on that.


100 points = 1 hour race pace is TSS 'rules', not TRIMP. TRIMP and TSS are not readily interchangable even though the values are sometimes close. By using HR, for better or worse TRIMP will natively include indirect and environmental factors. For example outdoor temperature (think HR in winter vs. summer while running/riding at same pace), current rest level (HR responds differently when well rested vs. a huge activity the day prior). These items aren't necessarily mincing the details, they can sometimes produce noticeable differences.

You can move your HR values lower (like Burnt Toast said) to put TRIMP on a different scale if you wish, but I would only suggest that if you have a good reason. The default values should produce very good results.

In any case, the default values presented by Training Load will likely not present a 100 TRIMP for a 1 hour race (should be a bit higher), whereas TSS (assuming FTP is setup properly) should.


I train exclusively by HR not pace. I feel the direct influences you mentioned all contribute to your over all stress so if that means I have to run slower then "nromal" because of these influences, so be it.

I've mainly added a couple extra HR zones to mirror Joel Friel's HR zones and adjusted the default TRIMP factors to split up the standard HR zones. One of the original HR zones was 140 to 160 bmp. I felt that was much too large of a spread as I know I feel much less stress at 140 then 160 and the default TRIMP factor was the same for that range. A 30 min run at 140 was much easier on me then a 30 minute run at 160, but calculated the same TRIMP score.

I'm suggesting that BigMike play around with the HR zones and TRIMP factors within those zones to represent what he feels is happening at those zones.
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Re: Need help understanding values

Postby BigMike » Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:47 pm

Burnt Toast wrote: I train exclusively by HR not pace. I feel the direct influences you mentioned all contribute to your over all stress so if that means I have to run slower then "nromal" because of these influences, so be it.

I've mainly added a couple extra HR zones to mirror Joel Friel's HR zones and adjusted the default TRIMP factors to split up the standard HR zones. One of the original HR zones was 140 to 160 bmp. I felt that was much too large of a spread as I know I feel much less stress at 140 then 160 and the default TRIMP factor was the same for that range. A 30 min run at 140 was much easier on me then a 30 minute run at 160, but calculated the same TRIMP score.

I'm suggesting that BigMike play around with the HR zones and TRIMP factors within those zones to represent what he feels is happening at those zones.


mechgt made a sticky thread about setting HR zones for use in TrainingLoad. (see Setting Heart Rate Zones / Factors here - viewtopic.php?f=47&t=9084)
I followed his guide, and broke my HR 'range' into 5-beat 'bins'. I let TrainingLoad set the factors, which it does in an exponential fashion. I never felt any need to tweak the factors.

I do agree that your 20 beat range from 140 to 160 was a little too crude, and you did good to break that up. On today's computers you could get a real smooth curve (and still not have a performance problem) by breaking it all the way down to 1-beat bins ... but it just dosn't make much of a difference ...
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Re: Need help understanding values

Postby Coach-Z » Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:50 am

I was actually kinda hoping for a "magic " piece of software that would pop up with a reminder, telling me when to push hard and when to back down...

Btw i now have a new high TRIMP value of 1099 after yesterday's 100K run..
11 hours, 9 minutes and 22 seconds.
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Re: Need help understanding values

Postby the5krunner » Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:09 pm

You wanted a "magic " piece of software that would pop up with a reminder,"

You basically have it already i reckon. This software is magic. it is based on science but it's interpretation needs to be a bit of a black art. Look at it EVERY TIME you have done a session and yo will start to feel what is happening better. it's late and i've blasted a few random thoughts down below. i hope they are helpful. email me directly if you want as i only come here every few weeks. (This is my Noddy guide) http://the5krunner.com/2011/12/18/5k-duathlon-triathlon-tracking-your-improvement-or-not-with-trimp-ctl-tsb-atl/

THIS IS THE REMINDER YOU WANT: I've not read thru all the thread apologies. But on your very first graph look at the green shaded area. When it's below the line you are pushing when above you are recovering/tapering. I had mine at -20 for a week or so and prob had fatigue/mood changes at that point (not a good place to be) when my fatigue was up to 100++

your TRIMPs are very high. Awesome well done. anything above 200 puts me to shame. Maybe you could train more frequently as there are gaps? There's no point necess in doing a 1000xTRIMP sessions if it takes you a week to recover...i'll do more than you in that week! Have you looked at sweetspot runs/bikes...effective training, less damage, quicker recovery. I did a 100 mile/160km bike ride and only got 200 TRIMPs ...wasn't going fast tho.

your ctl recently *ROSE* to 80. so you've been pushing it. again good. i was trying to get mine to 100 (but injury kicked in). that number is personal to me and you shouldn't necess aim for it tho and you would prob only be able to get to it by more sessions per week.

you've missed a line off the graph. put the one on which has your training effectiveness to race day (training influence). that's VERY useful but not scientific enough for you to tailor your sessions by it.

you seemed to spend a lot of time shopping in dec and gettign drunk over xmas? you were too recovered there for too long i would say

your tsb is now 0....you are tapering. you will see the effect in the future of your tsb if you do no more exercise. however you will want to do a little more exercise in your taper just to keep your blue ctl from falling too much. it will and should fall a bit in a taper i reckon.

all of course assumes your hr zones and hrmax are correct....and that all your exercise is included. are your swim sessions there? if not they need to be. have you got your zones right across each sport? you know you can choose exercise types (eg run bike swim) from your categories at the top to look at individual disciplines and there effect on the graphs??

sy am tired...apologies if i named any of the line wrongly got to go to bed now!
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