Training Analysis

by old_man_biking

Downloads: 2,939 (12) • Reviews: 3

Version:

3.0.5857

Updated:

Jan 14, 2016

Power Analysis Plugin

Power Analysis Plugin

Postby old_man_biking » Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:22 pm

Hi folks,

I've just published a first beta release of the Power Analysis Plugin.
This plugin provides power analysis following Martin's suggestion in post
http://www.zonefivesoftware.com/SportTr ... php?t=2459.
It resembles the analysis chart provided by the SRM software referenced in Martin's post.

For details see http://www.zonefivesoftware.com/SportTr ... php?t=2717 .

@All who sent me comments and suggestions:
Thanks a lot for all your ideas and help!!
For now, I've not yet included most of your suggestions.
I didn't have the time up to now, but sure I'll take up your ideas for the next builds.

Best regards,
OMB, Mr. Power
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Re: Power Analysis Plugin

Postby texmurphy » Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:59 pm

old_man_biking wrote:...For now, I've not yet included most of your suggestions.
I didn't have the time up to now, but sure I'll take up your ideas for the next builds...
Mr. Power

Love to have an "Overlay" for similiar Activities using SRM-like graphs :twisted:
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Postby DavidCHall » Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:01 pm

This plug in has a number of really cool features!!! A few that I've noticed include:

1. Power vs HR is shown as a colour coded (according to when the point occured on the activity time line) scatter dot. You can join / unjoin the dots by clicking on the graph.
2. Look carefully and you will see a histogram on both the Power and HR axis showing time spent in each zone.
3. You can force the scatter diagram to be limited to any part of the activity (select area on the Power graph)
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Postby admin » Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:35 pm

in a word... WOW.

stellar
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Postby clackerz » Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:48 pm

This is a really awesome plugin - tks OMB.
I have 'configured' my ST screen layout to allow more room for the graph/output so I can really see the data.
I'm new to the world that is power, but I'm learning....
Now that I can see power vs hr I can start to see where I am!

Is there any future changes to allow the output of the correlation, data and graph to be seen as a 'full screen'?

+1 on the overlay request too!
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Postby clackerz » Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:16 am

DavidCHall wrote:3. You can force the scatter diagram to be limited to any part of the activity (select area on the Power graph)


A great enhancement would be to select any part of the graph and have it highlight the route - visa versa.
I currently use the elevation section with the power data & hr data overlayed - I get a good idea on my output vs the elevation vs hr.
Maybe to even overlay the elevation in the power analysis with the enhanced data would also be beneficial?
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Postby old_man_biking » Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:37 am

clackerz wrote:
DavidCHall wrote:3. You can force the scatter diagram to be limited to any part of the activity (select area on the Power graph)


A great enhancement would be to select any part of the graph and have it highlight the route - visa versa.
I currently use the elevation section with the power data & hr data overlayed - I get a good idea on my output vs the elevation vs hr.
Maybe to even overlay the elevation in the power analysis with the enhanced data would also be beneficial?



Hi clackerz,

Good point. Unfortunately I need enhancements in the SportTracks plugin API to accomplish this. Which in turn means: "not in this version of ST". You're not the first one who suggests this. I've already joined the club long time ago :)
I'll ask Aaron.

Best regards,
OMB
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Postby admin » Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:14 am

API Enhancements are covered in this thread (developer access only):
http://www.zonefivesoftware.com/SportTr ... php?t=2735

And possibly related:
http://www.zonefivesoftware.com/SportTr ... php?t=2737
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Postby texmurphy » Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:22 am

I am currently using screen capture to save and share chart images. How hard is it to add ST standard image export to the plugins?
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Postby old_man_biking » Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:56 am

texmurphy wrote:I am currently using screen capture to save and share chart images. How hard is it to add ST standard image export to the plugins?


Not too hard, however you have to implement it for every plugin.
I've done this for one plugin: GPS2PowerTrack, on the Weather Info detail page - see the floppy disk icon.

I see I'll have to open a feature request data base for this plugin.
You've sent me lots of ideas and suggestions through this forum, PMs and E-Mail. I must admit, I'm flooded and cannot keep pace with it :oops:

Best regards,
OMB
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Postby admin » Wed Feb 13, 2008 2:38 pm

You may want to wait, as I will be pushing the standard chart context menu actions into common.visuals.
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Postby DavidCHall » Fri Feb 15, 2008 7:14 am

Power Analysis: How To

Version 1.2 15 February 2008

So you have installed GPSPowerTrack, or used the SRM or PowerTap import facility to create a power track for your cycling, running, walking, hiking or other exercise activities. You have run Power Analysis and have a fancy graph on your screen. Great!!! Now what??

The graph plots representative points from your activity showing Heart Rate vs Power: The colour of the point indicates where the point was recorded along the activity time line. Clicking on the graph allows the option to join the points.

The straight line indicates the most likely relationship between your heart rate and power: Derived by looking at a "least squares" linier fit (of interest for the mathematically inclined). This indicates a few interesting things:

Activity analysis:

1. Look at the relationship between the points at various points of your activity and the regression (straight) line:
* Heart Rate points above the line early in your activity may indicate too much effort too early: Lack of proper warm up.
* Heart Rate points above the line late on the activity time line may indicate a "race to finish" (if the power is also high), but may indicate (where power is low) burn out, dehydration, or lack of proper nutrition: Especially where long duration events are involved.
* One can expect points recorded at high power to be above the line: But points significantly above others may indicate over stress.
* Points below the line are good: Especially at high power. Whetever you were doing right is something you need to in general repeat.

2. Look at how scattered the points are: If most points fall somewhere on the line this is good (R2 will be low). Scatter may be good (if your workout was "interval" orientated), but may indicate other concerns in a more consistent steady workout.

3. Look at the differances between the warmup phase of your workout, vs the main duration: During warmup one hopes for a slowly increasing heart rate, with a linier increase in power. Later one hopes for steady power delivery at a steady heart rate. (Obviously dependant on the workout goals)

4. Look at the bar graphs on each axis: They show how much time you spent at specific heart rates and power outputs: Ensure this is consistent with your expectations in terms of the set plans for your activity.

Long term factors:

1. The zero power heart rate is is your resting heart rate. In theory this will be the same as your normal "resting" heart rate, especially if your activity data included your entire warm up period. As you gain fitness your resting heart rate may reduce.
2. The Heart Rate slope indicates the linier relationship between heart rate and power: As you gain fitness this number may reduce: Indicating that you are able to deliver more power without a corresponding heart rate increase.
3. From the report view select a number of activities over a period of time: Have a look at the Power Comparison graph. This shows the evolution of your ability to produce power at a number of given heart rates (fixed for today): As you gain fitness you can expect the graphs to show an increase over time: Effectively quantifying and measuring the expected result: Fitter = More power at the same heart rate.
4. Power improvement cannot be achieved overnight. Data will fluctuate daily as a function of diet, weight, general physical condition, illness, temperature, humidity, altitude, and many other factors: Take a long term view of your data.

Note:

1. If you find this type of information interesting or useful let me know: I have a few thoughts on other areas of ST2 and associated plug-ins that could benefit from a "How To" document, and may be motivated to get off my butt and write something given positive encouragement. Corrections, additions, suggestions are welcome posted on the forum or PM. Flames may should be addressed to [url]<junk@junk.com>[/url] for my immediate attention.
2. As the mood takes me I may choose to edit this post to add more data, or correct mistakes. Check to version number at the top of the post.
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Postby Pathfinder » Fri Feb 15, 2008 9:50 am

DCH Wrote:

1. If you find this type of information interesting or useful let me know: I have a few thoughts on other areas of ST2 and associated plug-ins that could benefit from a "How To" document, and may be motivated to get off my butt and write something given positive encouragement.


THIS IS POSITIVE ENCOURAGEMENT!

WOW -- between the plug in and the how to!!!!!!

As for my own next steps!

I have just last night loaded and started to play with the running and hiking features. They are mighty nice! I need to make sure my shoe info is good -- previously, I only worried about having the name and picture included. Now I can build a good data set and start tracking.

I will probably play with last year's date to see how it looks. Unless, I go back even further, I have the last 2 months of training build and taper before a late winter marathon followed by a switch to summer biking and then transition to another running focus for the winter. That should be an interesting data set to apply your "How To" to.

BRAVO -- Thanks -- Etc. :D
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Postby old_man_biking » Fri Feb 15, 2008 9:53 am

DavidCHall wrote:1. Look at the relationship between the points at various points of your activity and the regression (straight) line:
* Heart Rate points above the line early in your activity may indicate too much effort too early: Lack of proper warm up.
* Heart Rate points above the line late on the activity time line may indicate a "race to finish" (if the power is also high), but may indicate (where power is low) burn out, dehydration, or lack of proper nutrition: Especially where long duration events are involved.
* One can expect points recorded at high power to be above the line: But points significantly above others may indicate over stress.
* Points below the line are good: Especially at high power. Whetever you were doing right is something you need to in general repeat.


Hi David,
a brilliant post again - I might say "as usual" :)

Concerning the quoted sections of your post:
How about putting these rules of thumb into software code?
These rules can easily be expressed mathematically, so this should not be too difficult.
Hence, the plugin would not only show you a nice set of rainbow coloured points but could play wise guy and offer you some deductions and suggestions what to do or not to do.
Dehydration is related to temperature. So the piece of wise-guy software could even take a look at temperature.

Best regards,
OMB - Mr. Power
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Postby DavidCHall » Fri Feb 15, 2008 12:25 pm

old_man_biking wrote:How about putting these rules of thumb into software code?
These rules can easily be expressed mathematically, so this should not be too difficult.
Hence, the plugin would not only show you a nice set of rainbow coloured points but could play wise guy and offer you some deductions and suggestions what to do or not to do.
Dehydration is related to temperature. So the piece of wise-guy software could even take a look at temperature.


Cool idea: Perhaps we can take a look at how this may be achieved?
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Postby old_man_biking » Fri Feb 15, 2008 12:33 pm

DavidCHall wrote:Cool idea: Perhaps we can take a look at how this may be achieved?


Currently there's no lack of good ideas, just a lack of time to implement them .
I'm waiting for your next email 8)
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Postby fishyweb » Sat Feb 16, 2008 3:26 am

DavidCHall wrote:[1. If you find this type of information interesting or useful let me know: I have a few thoughts on other areas of ST2 and associated plug-ins that could benefit from a "How To" document, and may be motivated to get off my butt and write something given positive encouragement.

Just wanted to add my thanks for taking the time to write this. ST and its plugins is now so powerful, and the volume of data presented is so high, that I (for one?) find it difficult to objectively analyse the data presented. Any "How To" articles like this will certainly assist me in making better use of the data.

I wonder if there could be some way to make this info available directly from within ST? That would be awesome! Or, maybe a plugin that, when I import a new acticity, displays a message like "Wow Steve, that was a great workout. Your power output was much higher in your recovery HR zone than last month!" :D
Steve
Using Garmin FR 310XT for running, and Garmin Edge 800 (with cad and HR) for cycling
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Power Analysis Plugin

Postby lgratero » Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:07 am

Hi,

Excellent plugin and job. More tool to try improve our performance, nice!.
I have several doubts about how analize of results. In a sesion training the plugin reported:

- Power @130bpm: -1652,3 Watts
- Power @140bpm: -1265,6 Watts
- Power @150bpm: -877,4 Watts
- Power @160bpm: -490,3 Watts

What the meaning of the negative values?

What about Power @170bpm fo instance?
What about the Total Power of Session?.. Is important for see is I improve or not?

Regards

Luis Arturo
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Postby mazoaguirre » Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:45 am

i get some negative values too


and i want an explanation about the numerics values that are displayed an the above the graphs

what mean every one


i think that may enligthment us who are no study in the power matter and help us understand this wonderful world of the power

by the way i read the David explanation and i think i am in the procces to undertand but i need to more info please

:oops:
FR 310 and Foot Pod, Edge 500 and Cadence Sensor, GoPro HD 960
mazoaguirre.com
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Re: Power Analysis Plugin

Postby old_man_biking » Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:52 am

lgratero wrote:Hi,

Excellent plugin and job. More tool to try improve our performance, nice!.
I have several doubts about how analize of results. In a sesion training the plugin reported:

- Power @130bpm: -1652,3 Watts
- Power @140bpm: -1265,6 Watts
- Power @150bpm: -877,4 Watts
- Power @160bpm: -490,3 Watts

What the meaning of the negative values?

What about Power @170bpm fo instance?
What about the Total Power of Session?.. Is important for see is I improve or not?

Regards

Luis Arturo


Hi Luis,

1. The meaning of negative values? Well, you have to train harder :twisted:
Seriously: according to your figures the 0W value would be around 170bpm which is VERY high.
So,
either you are very young (--> high max heart rate),
or your workout load is very intense while having the fitness of a couch potatoe - which I explicitly don't assume, I just want to be complete :D
or your power values are far off (by using my GPS2PowerTrack plugin with configuration values that are not appropriate: weight/height/bike profile/...")

2. There is no such thing as "total power per session". There's either a "total work per session" or an "overall average power per session".
Average power is displayed on the "Power" detail page of ST.
Total work is proportional to the "kCals spent", which can be set by GPS2PowerTrack, when you check the corresponding check box.
Anyway, "total work" is not a measure that tells you if you improve in fitness.
It's a measure for how hard you worked. So it may only show if you improve concerning your New Year's resolution to train harder this year :twisted:

Cheers,
OMB
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Postby old_man_biking » Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:00 am

mazoaguirre wrote:i get some negative values too


and i want an explanation about the numerics values that are displayed an the above the graphs

what mean every one


i think that may enligthment us who are no study in the power matter and help us understand this wonderful world of the power

by the way i read the David explanation and i think i am in the procces to undertand but i need to more info please

:oops:


Mario,

David has already given good explanations.
Besides that, my plugin shows tool tips when you hover your mouse over the values that you don't understand.
I use this practice in most of my plugins.
And you still want more????

I can't believe it :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:


PS: If you don't understand R^2 ("R to the power of 2") go to wikipedia and read the article "Linear Regression".

Cheers,
OMB who tries to build software that itself leaves no questions open
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Postby old_man_biking » Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:17 am

clackerz wrote:This is a really awesome plugin - tks OMB.
I have 'configured' my ST screen layout to allow more room for the graph/output so I can really see the data.
I'm new to the world that is power, but I'm learning....
Now that I can see power vs hr I can start to see where I am!

Is there any future changes to allow the output of the correlation, data and graph to be seen as a 'full screen'?

+1 on the overlay request too!


Hi clackerz.
No, I will definitely stay within the activity detail page screen real estate borders for plugins like this one.
Sorry for all you 640*480 px screen owners, but I own some shares of TFT monitor manufacturers and must find a way to increase my income :roll:
However, Aaron brought up the idea how to give more screen real estate to plugin-provided activity detail pages. This should help.

Best regards,
OMB
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Postby old_man_biking » Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:32 am

fishyweb wrote:
DavidCHall wrote:[1. If you find this type of information interesting or useful let me know: I have a few thoughts on other areas of ST2 and associated plug-ins that could benefit from a "How To" document, and may be motivated to get off my butt and write something given positive encouragement.

Just wanted to add my thanks for taking the time to write this. ST and its plugins is now so powerful, and the volume of data presented is so high, that I (for one?) find it difficult to objectively analyse the data presented. Any "How To" articles like this will certainly assist me in making better use of the data.

I wonder if there could be some way to make this info available directly from within ST? That would be awesome! Or, maybe a plugin that, when I import a new acticity, displays a message like "Wow Steve, that was a great workout. Your power output was much higher in your recovery HR zone than last month!" :D


Hi Steve,

see my post http://www.zonefivesoftware.com/SportTr ... 2933#12933 .

Cheers,
OMB
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Postby gerhard » Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:14 am

@DavidCHall
Excellent description.
You may want to add something about Notes for "Negative slope"
My experience:
If the slope is negative or the stability index low*, the power track is likely not representative. Try adjusting the parameters when calculating. You may also increase the averaging interval.

For some activities with frequent intensity changes (interval sessions) the effort (effect) changes faster than the required smoothing of input parameters and can (currently?) not be studied with the tool.

*The lowest acceptable value depends but lower than 0,5 is low.

Also add a note something like "As running power normally is more difficult to calculate than biking power, the Running analysis is much more uncertain."
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Postby DavidCHall » Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:23 pm

Thanks for many positive constructive comments re my attempt to document the finer points of this excellent plug in.

Rather than update my post, which was my original intention, I'm now looking for a beter way to publish the document: Watch out for progress on this one in the near future...

In the interim please keep posting your remarks, and suggestions: All are noted and appreciated.
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