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racerfern
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 Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:38 am Post subject: |
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Batteries all check out. It was a gradual increase then decrease in line with the effort. I sometimes get spikes from flapping jerseys or when first starting out if I haven't made enough sweat. That was not the case here.
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hegstrom
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:44 am Post subject: |
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| HENNES wrote: | | racerfern wrote: | | Agreed. If you are fit then you never know what kind of max you might hit. At 58 years old, I hit 191 bpm yesterday. I used to think my max was 183 until yesterday. It actually was a disappointment to me because it meant I might have been able to do more on some previous outings. |
Woooww - thats the worst difference Ive seen sofar.
In my first year running I got up to 183, in the 2nd 185 and now at 187 with 47years and that has been challenged very often and never exceeded so it might be right. But with your big difference thats even bad for training.
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Your max is your max and you can't be over 100%. If you ever exceed your max HR, you just found your new max HR. |
...or you need to buy new battieres! 2 Weeks ago i got up to 103% - while nearly "crawling" through the woods, so that must have been the batteries and I got new ones. Since then and even with a new PB on the HM last saturday no more than 97% was seen. Check your batteries! |
That's a good point about the batteries. Heart rate monitors can also have measurement errors due to a bad signal, either due to improper placement of the chest-strap, too much moisture, or too little moisture.
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mechgt
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:30 am Post subject: |
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| racerfern wrote: | Agreed. If you are fit then you never know what kind of max you might hit. At 58 years old, I hit 191 bpm yesterday. I used to think my max was 183 until yesterday. It actually was a disappointment to me because it meant I might have been able to do more on some previous outings.
Your max is your max and you can't be over 100%. If you ever exceed your max HR, you just found your new max HR. |
I've never heard this before, but I wonder if your max doesn't vary a little bit with the temperature? I've thought that my max was 195 for a while (28 yrs old), but on a couple of recent occasions I was able to sustain around 200 for a 30 second sprint (such as at the end of a race). It's cooler here now, and I have never been able to do that before. |
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HENNES
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:43 am Post subject: |
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| mechgt wrote: | | racerfern wrote: | Agreed. If you are fit then you never know what kind of max you might hit. At 58 years old, I hit 191 bpm yesterday. I used to think my max was 183 until yesterday. It actually was a disappointment to me because it meant I might have been able to do more on some previous outings.
Your max is your max and you can't be over 100%. If you ever exceed your max HR, you just found your new max HR. |
I've never heard this before, but I wonder if your max doesn't vary a little bit with the temperature? I've thought that my max was 195 for a while (28 yrs old), but on a couple of recent occasions I was able to sustain around 200 for a 30 second sprint (such as at the end of a race). It's cooler here now, and I have never been able to do that before. |
The max is allways the same and to the best of my knowledge its not possible to "train it higher", i.e. increase it by lots of training.
Youre resting heartrate does vary and depending on training it might go lower, also it might increase in case of illness or tooooo much training.
If you reach a higher number, that was there before already, but you werent able to reach it - might be do to temperature or depending on the sport or the way the competion goes.
Last saturdays HM I was running at >90% for quite some time - even with a competitor and me head to head "flying"  the last 200meters it only got up to 97%. Its very difficult to actually reach the 100% - most times only happens if you do special tests to reach it.
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rgds hennes, duesseldorf/germany
- running with FR 305 and STs 3.0
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clackerz
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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I think your MAX HR is a combo of enviro factors, personal factors and training.
I can agree that your max hr increases - but whether that is because your training increases it, or if you're pain threshold increases allowing you to reach a higher max hr - I'm not sure.
If I notice my HR is hitting, or thereabouts and my body isn't about to collapse, then I do another MAX HR test. Usually I find I can increase it a couple more beats.
I always rest a couple of days before a test and always do it on a trainer as I don't want to be out on the road a black out (as I've nearly done on several occasions).
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HENNES
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| clackerz wrote: |
I can agree that your max hr increases - but whether that is because your training increases it, or if you're pain threshold increases allowing you to reach a higher max hr - I'm not sure. |
In my view: MaxHR can NOT increase, but most likely one was not able to reach that level before. Over time your pain threshold does increase and training and therefore you can punish yourselves better 
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rgds hennes, duesseldorf/germany
- running with FR 305 and STs 3.0
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racerfern
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| HENNES wrote: | | In my view: MaxHR can NOT increase, but most likely one was not able to reach that level before. Over time your pain threshold does increase and training and therefore you can punish yourselves better |
Agreed. Max HR cannot increase, in fact it decreases over time. I didn't hit a new high, I got closer to my MAX HR. That means all this time I might have been able to do better. That's what bothers me.
This also shows the advantage of formal testing for things like VO2Max, HR, etc. in that you will "know" what you can expect of yourself.
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clackerz
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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My Bad! I did state that your MAX HR Increases.
What I was meaning is that your body has a max hr, but how close you go to reaching this actual max hr is through training or increased pain threshold.
So over time with training, pain management etc you get closer to achieving your actual MAX HR - and as stated as you age your body MAX HR drops.
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geraldlibercan
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:57 am Post subject: Displaying trimp values as a column option |
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| Just wondering if it is possible to show the total trimp value of each workout as a column option? Also to be able to graph this in the activity reports? |
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mechgt
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karlospantani
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| Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:01 am Post subject: Entering Athletes resting and maxHR? |
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| Hi when i go to the TRIMP settings page it says that no resting HR and maxHR value exists, so i can't change the Factor values. How do i set a global resting and maxHR so that the TRIMP plug-in sees them? i can only see how to do it on a daily basis on the Athlete page. |
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HENNES
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| Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:05 am Post subject: Re: Entering Athletes resting and maxHR? |
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| karlospantani wrote: | | do it on a daily basis on the Athlete page. |
Thats it - it will be carried forward to your next entry. If there is no different entry, same number gets calculated. So you should put a number in right at the very beginning.
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David Rosa
Joined: 16 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:50 am Post subject: |
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Hello
I'm currently finishing my degree in sports science and my final paper is about TRIMP and other formulas of quantifying training load. I'm currently using the formula of Morton (TRIMP), Training Stress Score and Exertion Count.
I can see that nobody here that uses the Trimp formula is using the Y factor. It's an exponential parameter that is going (or tries to) reflect the lactate accumulation in the organism, therefore, as you already know it's not linear. So, instead of:
TRIMP= Time x Delta HR
we'll have:
TRIMP= Time x Delta HR x Y
My question is this: do you already knew about the Y factor or you just don't apply because you don't want to?
I'm having some difficulties in applying the Y factor to a Excell spreadsheet (I really, trully suck at math). Can anyone help me with this?
Y= 0,64exp1,92x (male)
Y= 0,86exp1,67x (female)
If you wish I can post some of the conclusions on the assignment
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David Rosa |
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mechgt
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| Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:02 am Post subject: |
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I'm familiar with these factors and I believe that they're incorporated with the Training Load plugin (see link in my signature).
The way that both of these plugins operate is this:
each HR range is assigned a 'factor'.
TRIMP = (time in HR range1 * factor1) + (time in HR range2 * factor2) + ...
The 'factor' is different for each HR range, and you could create as many HR ranges as you like such that you're essentially integrating this, rather than taking a sum if you like (I just don't know how to integrate in VB .NET  )
Anyway, to answer your question the Y factor is part of the 'factor'. TRIMP (by default) uses "Polar factors" that I suppose were developed by Polar (HR people). If I recall correctly, Training Load uses the male Y factors that you mention to create its default set of factors. (ST doesn't have a male/female option, so I just picked one.) Take a look at the settings page of each plugin and you'll see the factor curves that I'm referring to.
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rolfrunner
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| Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:13 pm Post subject: manual entry trimp |
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Does anybody know how to manually enter a trimp value. For instance if you forgot to put your hrm on. Meaning ofcourse that you have to make a guess.
Reason for the question is that this data without HRM is missed in the training load plug-in |
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mechgt
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| Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:32 pm Post subject: Re: manual entry trimp |
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| rolfrunner wrote: | Does anybody know how to manually enter a trimp value. For instance if you forgot to put your hrm on. Meaning ofcourse that you have to make a guess.
Reason for the question is that this data without HRM is missed in the training load plug-in |
This plugin (TRIMP plugin) is completely separate from Training Load. It is not required for Training Load to operate.
But to answer your question, you can enter "TRIMP=nnnn" (without the quotes) in the Notes section of an activity, and Training Load will pick it up.
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rolfrunner
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| Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 3:49 am Post subject: TRIMP |
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mechgt, thanks.
Reason for asking was that I have done some trainings without a HRM. As a result in activity view no TRIMP value is calculated. If you then go to training load, CTL en influence are not completely correct calculated since it misses data.
The Training load is a very interesting function from ST which I am exploring and see if I can use it to optimse my training. But as said, sometimes I forget to put the HRM on. And then it's better to have a guess then no value.
Kind Regards, Rolf Dubbeld |
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