I am crushed....

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Re: I am crushed....

Postby Rootman » Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:09 am

ksherman wrote: Is it really the cost?


Yeah, for me it really is. I'm trying to save for retirement and am trying to save every nickle I can. I don't want or need the features of the MOBI app. I am not interested in the social media features and just want to see the data. Where did I go? And how far was it? How long did it take me? How many miles this week, month, year? That's all I want to see. I tried the MOBI app and it just didn't interest me at all.

ksherman wrote:
The mobi training load is a picture. The ST3 TL plugin is a data mine.


This exactly, all I want to see is the data. I know, I'm one of the few, but I feel like I am being cut off from all my data that I previously had. I exported it all to Garmin but I can't see what I want as easily as ST3. I know the company has to survive, but give us a version of ST3 that does not need to be activated, or a permanent activation key that can be applied once the ST activation server goes dark.
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby Rootman » Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:27 am

I found a 'semi' solution to ow to keep ST3 running without worries about reactivation - but it's geeky. This also assumes that ST3 WILL keep running on an activated installation. I don't know if it periodically 'phones home' to check or not. If it does this will not work any better than anything else.

I have chimed in on how I too was disappointed in the ST3 going EOL. It''s gonna happen, I'm concerned about how I access my data when I upgrade my laptop next time, or just have to re-image to a fresh OS it because of bit-rot. As we suspect, after the formal EOL, ST3 will likely not activate again and a new installation.

In another thread I mentioned how I could not import data into my ST3 from my Garmin Edge 200 any more, something happened between my last ride Oct 2018 and a few days ago, the Garmin plugin is not detected even though it's there and up to date. ( http://www.zonefivesoftware.com/sporttracks/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18090 ) I tried my spare laptop, it too has the same issue. So I uninstalled it from my spare and installed it on a Virtualbox virtual machine I had for testing. Same OS, just not as much stuff on it. It works there. So, at least I can import now. And as long as I can keep this VM up and running it should work past the ST3 EOL regardless of what I do with my main laptop hardware / OS. For years I have been keeping my ST3 logbook on my Google drive, so despite the fact I can't IMPORT on my main laptop, I can still see the NEW and OLD data in the logbook by firing up ST3 on my original laptop host.

Not perfect, and probably well beyond the skill level of many casual users. I just thought I'd throw it out there for anyone wanting to experiment.
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby Rootman » Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:54 am

FredericB wrote:I am personally going here (http://mytourbook.sourceforge.net/mytourbook/)


This looks promising. I was able to export ALL my rides into a single export file and import them into My Tourbook in a single fast import. I working through it now and it looks like it has what I want, just to see and keep the data.

This is a good find. Kudos to you for pointing it out.
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby IAmFedUpWithThis » Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:11 am

Me too - been using it since 2007 and find it better than what Garmin offers. However, I certainly won't be paying the subscription rate for the mobi version because I have no need to access the product other than from a single PC, and the cost far outweighs the value.

But could we have some clarification from the developers about what exactly happens in 2020, please. Plainly there will be no more support, bug fixes, enhancements and so on, but will the product continue to work (at least unless Google change their maps software again), and will there really be a problem transferring from one machine to another, or upgrading the machine on which it resides, given one has the various activation and payment codes?
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby backcountry » Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:25 am

This is very disappointing news. I have been using ST3 for years and have accumulated quite a collection of data.

Ironically, I have recently been considering subscribing to MOBI as a supplement to my ST3 as a way of providing a little more connectivity to my data between devices. However, this was premised on the basis that ST3 would continue to be my primary tool. So, if they planning EOL for ST3 then I certainly won't require MOBI.

I guess it is time to look for a new platform for my data.
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby Rootman » Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:42 am

Guys, I just checked out My Tourbook ( http://mytourbook.sourceforge.net/mytourbook/ ) and it seems a likely successor to ST3.

While not as simple it seems to have what I want. Data retention, and all the facts about the ride that I could hope for. Last night after not being able to get the import from my Garmin device to work any longer I ended exported all my rides from ST3 to Garmin connect, a frustratingly slow process. I had to do like a week or two at a time or else Gamin choked and died.

With the My Tourbook app I was able to import ALL my rides back to 2012 in one exported TCX file and import them into MTB in just seconds.

I hate to see ST3 go, I've relied on it for years. But I understand that they have to make money and the money is in the MOBI app and not the Windows app. So, farewell guys. I'm going for a ride!
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby gregoryx » Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:57 am

Went back and checked: ST from 2008 for me; and MOBI from whenever it first came out.

I'm looking into all the alternatives. I want a local app with data / database living locally (as well as online is fine). I want strong reporting. And the equipment thing - though it's almost entirely shoes for me. And I want to be able to import / export to different formats. I don't need automatic sync with anything; though it's certainly nice to import from Garmin and export to Strava - but I'm doing that manually now anyway.

As others mentioned above, I actually look back at the data to search for what runs I want to do or what happened in a training cycle from a few years back. That doesn't go well with MOBI. Every time I try to search for that old run that was somewhere near this location with this approximate distance... let's just say I can find what I want in ST3 but it's near impossible on MOBI.

I hope the Z5 guys will give us an unlocked version. But this is what I'm going to do right now: I"m going to load up a VM for ST3 so that it will continue to run no matter what happens to any OS or whatever. That's a no-cost option in Win10Pro - or I can use VMware or other options. That way I can keep a single backup file of the whole OS.

To those looking for alternatives: while Golden Cheetah doesn't look great to me, it does support a direct import of the entire ST3 database. Not sure what it'll do with any custom fields. Not sure how the exports work. But it's an encouraging option on the import side.
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby IAmFedUpWithThis » Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:02 am

What I'm looking for (from ST3 or an alternative) is very simple:

Run on a PC under Windows
Local storage (I can always copy to cloud storage myself if I want to)
Tracking of equipment use (shoes)
Display on Google satellite imagery
Overlayed display of weather (in particular, wind speed)

Everything else I need I can get from Garmin Connect. Do any of the alternatives people have mentioned (or indeed Mobi) offer this? From what I can see, far more of them seem focused on cycling than running.
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby Crackle » Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:48 am

So does this mean it will stop working at the end of support because the verification servers will no longer be there or will it continue to work but we will no longer be able to re-install it when we swap computers?

I have no intention of going to mobi unfortunately. Strava and Garmin connect all serve me well for free but all of my data is on Sporttracks st3, the others just contain subsets. Over the years I've spent time organising that data so I can view and report on it and one of the reasons I went to a PC based program was to avoid this kind of redundancy, to say I'm disappointed doesn't even come close and is one of the reasons I won't now move to mobi, I don't want to be held hostage to some future change either.

Personally I would urge the administrators to release a one-off version, as is, unsupported which we can continue to use and install until obsolesce overtakes us. In the meantime I will move the rest of my data over to Garmin and Strava, a tedious task but I don't see an alternative and in future I'll just stick with my own database, now about to be revamped, to keep my data.
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby whiskywheels » Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:59 am

Crackle wrote:So does this mean it will stop working at the end of support because the verification servers will no longer be there or will it continue to work but we will no longer be able to re-install it when we swap computers?
Personally I would urge the administrators to release a one-off version, as is, unsupported which we can continue to use and install until obsolesce overtakes us.


+1

I could get used to mobi, have had if for some time, but given a choice would prefer to access all my old data, and most importantly, notes, from ST3.
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby watchcaptain » Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:36 am

All my sport activities like sailing, running, cycling, mountaineering are on ST3 since 2005. Notes on each activity, gear used, metrics etc etc. ST3 EOL is a huge disappointment. I am willing to pay for this program, but not for an online version with less features, which other platforms offer for free.
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby Rootman » Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:17 am

For the above questions:

I too was not impressed with the MOBI version, Garmin Connect works OK and I get it automatically when I connect my Garmin GPS to my PC but it is not as good at showing data as ST3.

I was looking around and another poster here had a link to 'My Tourbook' ( http://mytourbook.sourceforge.net/mytourbook/ ) which seems to be as close to ST3 as anything I've tried. I used the Export2TCX plugin in ST3 to export all my data. I had previously exported all my older data that was from before I got the Garmin (and used Garmin Connect) to the the online Garmin Connect app. It froze up at any more than a few weeks of data at a time, so I had to export 2 weeks at a time and import them. Slow is an understatement, it took me hours. I got it there but most of the activity types are incorrect, so I have to manually change them all - I'm still working on that.

For the My Tourbook, on a lark I dumped the whole lot from ST3 into one giant TCX file and imported it. I was shocked that it imported it all in seconds! I've been pretty impressed with the app. It's free, runs on Windows 64 bit and Linux 64 bit. Keeps the data local and has a lot of features.

Here's another tip: A few years back I had my ST3 pointing to my Google Drive sync folder for it's .logbook data - sort of an unofficial cloud backup. So any copy of ST3 that I setup would point to it and have the same data. I did the same with this My Tourbook too and it works fine. I have it on 3 computers and they all see the SAME data. Updating one updates them all. You MUST be careful and only run one copy of the program at a time. You also have to give it a few minutes to update the data to the Google drive after writing a lot of data or before starting another PC and using it. Just a minute or so is enough. I did the My Tourbook data by creating a symbolic link for the mytourbook folder to one in my Google sync folder.
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby watchcaptain » Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:54 am

My Tourbook has skipped MAC OS Support in the recent versions.
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby Rootman » Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:21 am

watchcaptain wrote:My Tourbook has skipped MAC OS Support in the recent versions.


Looks like it unfortunately, the poor guys Mackbook almost asploded. Then again I don't think ST3 was ever Mac compatible, so it's not really relevant to the ST3 conversation.
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby watchcaptain » Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:05 am

Rootman wrote:
watchcaptain wrote:My Tourbook has skipped MAC OS Support in the recent versions.


Looks like it unfortunately, the poor guys Mackbook almost asploded. Then again I don't think ST3 was ever Mac compatible, so it's not really relevant to the ST3 conversation.

I am one of those and had hoped to get rid of my Windows VM on my wonderful Macbook.
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby admin » Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:43 am

It seems from the posts here there is some confusion in the recent ST3 Windows PC End of Life announcement. I'll link to the official announcement so folks can review it:

http://www.zonefivesoftware.com/st3-end-of-life/

As stated in the announcement if you are a current user you should not rely on or assume that the ST3 Windows PC software will operate after 31 March, 2020. When the software reaches end life you will not have a support option to assist you. If you care about your data history in your ST3 logbook, dedicate time in the next year to find a new solution and migrate your data. This announcement gives you plenty of time to make plans and transition. There are no lack of software fitness tracking options in the market.

If your needs require that your data be stored locally on your PC, or if you don't have the budget for fitness software, you have two options you can investigate: Golden Cheetah, and MyTourBook. If you're open to an internet solution but want something simple and free, go with the software that comes with your GPS device - Garmin Connect, Polar Flow, or the Suunto App, etc. For basic tracking they will work fine.

Of course, we hope you will enjoy our offer to transition your ST3 data to the new online SportTracks platform as the vast majority of our customers have done over the past few years. You can easily migrate your ST3 data using the ST3 Cloud Sync feature. You'll find features you know and love in ST3 and a long list of new innovations that no other apps provide - elevation correction, run power analysis, CIQ field support, swim heart rate support and detailed stroke analysis, outdoor weather conditions, auto-hill detection, goal tracking, running dynamics, side-by-side workout comparison - the list goes on and on, and to sweeten the deal we are about half the price of competitors that offer similar advanced features. Read more on our website: SportTracks Features or check out what we've been up to lately on the SportTracks Blog
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby admin » Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:45 am

watchcaptain wrote:I am one of those and had hoped to get rid of my Windows VM on my wonderful Macbook.


Yup. There's a few Macsters out there going thru the hoops to use ST3 - we found the majority moved to the online platform that works anywhere on any device. I believe we saw our Mac + iPhone users jump by something like 4x with the online app versus the Windows PC app. Which makes a lot of sense.
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby ricomundy » Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:13 pm

I have data going back to 1990 in my ST, as I used to keep my journal in Excel and when I got ST, I imported all of that as well as all of my GPS data when that came out. Besides MyTourBook and Golden Cheetah mentioned in this thread, are there any other paid or free options people are aware of that have feature parity with ST? I love ST and hate change and when I'm going to put my time and energy into changing something, I want to go for a long time. I tried the Mobi early on, and it just did not have the powerful features I was used to in ST. But I do need equipment tracking as I have a hundred items or more I track separately on my bikes, like brake pads, cassette, chainrings, etc so I can have a good idea when they may need replacing. That would be hard to lose all that on another platform.

As far as cloud platforms, I don't trust any of them for longevity, including Mobi. Who knows when they will get bought out and/or shut down. Even Strava and Garmin Connect I only use for sharing and social media aspect and always have in the back of my mind what may happen if they would go away. So I don't care about the data on them as much. I do care about ST as it is my authoritative journal of the almost 100,000 miles I've tracked since 1991.

Perhaps ST desktop code could be put in the Open Source community for someone to develop? That would be really cool.
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby admin » Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:13 pm

Someone who has more info on MTB or GC should chime in to help. We don't use either of those apps for obvious reasons, but my impression is they don't come close to "feature parity" versus the SportTracks online app, which does what ST3 does and a bunch more.

MTB is really basic - no gear tracking or performance modeling I think, no pool swim, no CIQ fields, running dynamics, weather imports... does it track indoor workouts either? afaik it's an open source hobby project done when the author has free time. GC is much more robust but definitely a "toolbox" type of app with a learning curve and tilts very heavy towards cycling power meter users.
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby gregoryx » Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:17 pm

admin wrote:It seems from the posts here there is some confusion in the recent ST3 Windows PC End of Life announcement. I'll link to the official announcement so folks can review it:

http://www.zonefivesoftware.com/st3-end-of-life/

As stated in the announcement if you are a current user you should not rely on or assume that the ST3 Windows PC software will operate after 31 March, 2020. When the software reaches end life you will not have a support option to assist you. If you care about your data history in your ST3 logbook, dedicate time in the next year to find a new solution and migrate your data. This announcement gives you plenty of time to make plans and transition. There are no lack of software fitness tracking options in the market.

If your needs require that your data be stored locally on your PC, or if you don't have the budget for fitness software, you have two options you can investigate: Golden Cheetah, and MyTourBook. If you're open to an internet solution but want something simple and free, go with the software that comes with your GPS device - Garmin Connect, Polar Flow, or the Suunto App, etc. For basic tracking they will work fine.

Of course, we hope you will enjoy our offer to transition your ST3 data to the new online SportTracks platform as the vast majority of our customers have done over the past few years. You can easily migrate your ST3 data using the ST3 Cloud Sync feature. You'll find features you know and love in ST3 and a long list of new innovations that no other apps provide - elevation correction, run power analysis, CIQ field support, swim heart rate support and detailed stroke analysis, outdoor weather conditions, auto-hill detection, goal tracking, running dynamics, side-by-side workout comparison - the list goes on and on, and to sweeten the deal we are about half the price of competitors that offer similar advanced features. Read more on our website: SportTracks Features or check out what we've been up to lately on the SportTracks Blog


Believe it or not, there are some of us who are not shy to pay for things and actually want the features we've enjoyed to this point. I'm sure the few of us couldn't make it financially viable for you to continue the PC platform, so I won't argue that.

Could you possibly see your way to unlock ST3 so that I'm on my own to "support" it. Because the only support I've received has been getting a new unlock code if I move it to another system. I can appreciate the possibility that it will become abandoned from syncing with MOBI at some point without your further development; but at least it would allow us to keep the platform that we've grown to love (and customized in many cases) as our primary repository for workout data.

I may be in the very small minority, but I will not be moving to any cloud-based solution that lacks on-premise data storage as well. And will never consider one that doesn't allow me the option to download ALL my data on a regular basis as my primary log of activities.

So... any chance you'll respond to the requests above (more than one) to offer a non-locked version of the software you're abandoning? Sure would feel like a great good-faith action to those of us on the platform for a decade or more.
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby IAmFedUpWithThis » Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:54 pm

admin wrote:It seems from the posts here there is some confusion in the recent ST3 Windows PC End of Life announcement. I'll link to the official announcement so folks can review it:

http://www.zonefivesoftware.com/st3-end-of-life/

As stated in the announcement if you are a current user you should not rely on or assume that the ST3 Windows PC software will operate after 31 March, 2020. When the software reaches end life you will not have a support option to assist you. If you care about your data history in your ST3 logbook, dedicate time in the next year to find a new solution and migrate your data. This announcement gives you plenty of time to make plans and transition. There are no lack of software fitness tracking options in the market.

If your needs require that your data be stored locally on your PC, or if you don't have the budget for fitness software, you have two options you can investigate: Golden Cheetah, and MyTourBook. If you're open to an internet solution but want something simple and free, go with the software that comes with your GPS device - Garmin Connect, Polar Flow, or the Suunto App, etc. For basic tracking they will work fine.

Of course, we hope you will enjoy our offer to transition your ST3 data to the new online SportTracks platform as the vast majority of our customers have done over the past few years. You can easily migrate your ST3 data using the ST3 Cloud Sync feature. You'll find features you know and love in ST3 and a long list of new innovations that no other apps provide - elevation correction, run power analysis, CIQ field support, swim heart rate support and detailed stroke analysis, outdoor weather conditions, auto-hill detection, goal tracking, running dynamics, side-by-side workout comparison - the list goes on and on, and to sweeten the deal we are about half the price of competitors that offer similar advanced features. Read more on our website: SportTracks Features or check out what we've been up to lately on the SportTracks Blog


Yes, but does SportTracks mobi support Google maps? The information you give on the "features" link above is very top-level. This was one of the main reasonas for my using SportTracks in the first place; no other map provider offers a satellite view, to my knowledge, and I haven't found another program that supports Google maps either.
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby Rootman » Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:04 pm

admin wrote:MTB is really basic - no gear tracking or performance modeling I think, no pool swim, no CIQ fields, running dynamics, weather imports... does it track indoor workouts either? afaik it's an open source hobby project done when the author has free time. GC is much more robust but definitely a "toolbox" type of app with a learning curve and tilts very heavy towards cycling power meter users.

Yes to all of this. MTB is very basic, which is all I need. I don't collect any objects in my life as a hobby, I do collect rides. All I want to know where I went, when, the elevation and the speed as well as peek around where I can go next. And this is why I don't want to move to the MOBI app. MTB is free, and not going to disappear in less than a year (hopefully). I looked at Golden Cheetah and WOW! It's more than I could ever want or need and I just don't want to spend hours and days figuring it all out.
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby runs4cache » Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:34 am

does SportTracks mobi support Google maps? The information you give on the "features" link above is very top-level. This was one of the main reasonas for my using SportTracks in the first place; no other map provider offers a satellite view, to my knowledge, and I haven't found another program that supports Google maps either.


Sport Tracks mobi supports google satellite view, but then so also does Strava, Garmin Connect, and Endomondo, without having to get an api key of your own. The ST.mobi map choices are Google Streets, Google Terrain, and Google Satellite.
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby Crackle » Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:18 am

admin wrote:
As stated in the announcement if you are a current user you should not rely on or assume that the ST3 Windows PC software will operate after 31 March, 2020. When the software reaches end life you will not have a support option to assist you. If you care about your data history in your ST3 logbook, dedicate time in the next year to find a new solution and migrate your data. This announcement gives you plenty of time to make plans and transition. There are no lack of software fitness tracking options in the market.


What that doesn't say, is whether it will stop working all together because it can no longer reach the verification servers. Likewise it seems we won't be able to re-install it. I appreciate your position in no longer wanting to support a legacy system but this answer is not clear. Will it work or won't it work? I appreciate that even if it did, it wouldn't continue too as things around it changed, Problems with maps and Garmin compatibility have already shown that

I've looked at mytourbook but a) it doesn't work and b) it looks entirely ropey. Goldencheetah may fulfill my needs, st3 definitely does. Unfortunately my needs are simple and they don't justify moving to mobi, which I appreciate is a top product much like st3 was. Anyway I wish you luck on your journey but it looks like this is my stop.
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby Crackle » Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:41 am

Goldencheetah is not for me. Incomprehensible and again, it doesn't install properly on my system. Turning into a bit of a headache this.
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