I am crushed....

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Re: I am crushed....

Postby admin » Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:32 pm

also I don't want to rag on TP too much because they moved into other music software and stuff so it's not really a fair comparison to SportTracks anymore but.... come... on... guys... really? :lol:
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby ksherman » Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:48 pm

admin wrote:It sounds like you have one or two complaints about some UI things. Fair assessment! We prioritize development based on a mix of total vote count and number of voters. We've judged that it's much better to release something that makes 800 or 2000 people happy than a few people bothered by extra clicks. The downside... it means UI/UX stuff gets on the back burner a lot and we tend towards bigger bang features.
.


Fully understand that point. However UI/UX can make the difference between useful or not. And in many cases they would appear to us non-tech people to be trivial in making the change. Like;
Adding Totals to the Workout Inquiry.
Adding the "Gap" value to the Goals graphic.
Updating the workout filters away from the imprecise slider model.
Adding detail to the training load applications. (Okay, that may not be trivial)

Also I think it is pretty fair from the users POV to bring into the discussion that virtually the entire Mobi build was already in your IP realm from ST. That is quite a headstart.
I have been in on the mobi journey since pretty much day 1, on my seventh year sub now. And I still have to use ST for many functions. I would be quite happy to ditch ST, life would be much easier. That is your goal I know, but when will mobi be ready? Right now I visit the dashboard 90%, and sometimes open the workout itself 7% and 3% to ALL other screens.

And just about uservoice, it is a good-ish tool for managing suggestions. But the forums also provided a way for people to ask usability questions, ask for hints & suggestions etc from other users. How do you assess swimming training, how do you record weight training sessions, how do you interpret training load etc. These things are best addressed through user to user discussions, gathering alternate views and options and using it how it suits you. And an added benefit for yourself is that it will generate ideas about how you may look to update certain features. I'm not aware that we have a replacement anywhere for that type of discussion.

I'm trying to be constructive here, I hope it has come across that way.
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby admin » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:10 am

ksherman wrote:But the forums also provided a way for people to ask usability questions, ask for hints & suggestions etc from other users. How do you assess swimming training, how do you record weight training sessions, how do you interpret training load etc. These things are best addressed through user to user discussions, gathering alternate views and options and using it how it suits you. And an added benefit for yourself is that it will generate ideas about how you may look to update certain features. I'm not aware that we have a replacement anywhere for that type of discussion.

Thanks for joining the conversation.

You may have missed this upthread but the ST3 forums see about a dozen visitors a week. There's maybe 50-100 or so core users that visit around once a month, and another few hundred that come by to ask a single question in a year. These are a vanishingly small fraction of our total customers and social reach and contacts directly via support. The big drop happened in 2016 when SportTracks online overtook ST3... but there's a lot of other factors why this happened across the entire internet - namely, social sucking up so much online attention, larger communities like reddit, and evolving sites like stackexchange.

So it's a good idea... but hasn't really borne out in the actual analytics numbers we look at to make strategic decisions.
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby ksherman » Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:02 am

I would postulate that the use of forums dropped off because the use of ST dropped off and the forums have never really catered for the mobi users. Often users posting mobi issues are instructed to contact support. Which is fine but does tend to "hide" any commentary.

Perhaps a reddit type setup is the way to go for users to discuss mobi.
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby admin » Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:47 am

ksherman wrote:I would postulate that the use of forums dropped off because the use of ST dropped off and the forums have never really catered for the mobi users. Often users posting mobi issues are instructed to contact support. Which is fine but does tend to "hide" any commentary.

Yup. Noted earlier. You know we track analytics for our customer data and use it to make strategic decisions right? Just sayin... :oops: There's a correlation to ST3 users transitioning to online but it also accelerated thru 2016 and there's a floor that forum users hit where we've essentially been for 2+ years..... a mature product, a mature industry, less interest in forums overall, community critical mass collapse, flight to social media - dozens of causes no doubt to postulate on endlessly.. Users will probably never drop to absolute ZERO, but there becomes a threshold where it doesn't make business sense to keep the lights on here, especially as ST3 will be end of life, and all other activity happens on our .mobi domain

ksherman wrote:Perhaps a reddit type setup is the way to go for users to discuss mobi.

Yeah a subreddit makes a lot of sense and easy to add and moderate. It's a great idea!
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby FredB1184 » Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:41 am

ksherman wrote: I would be quite happy to ditch ST, life would be much easier. That is your goal I know, but when will mobi be ready?


Clearly, it's not ready, that's why the ST/mobi team has to discontinue ST, close this .com domain and FORCE every user off ST as otherwise people are not doing the move to .mobi. And even with that, I'd be curious to know how many people actually made the move to ST.mobi
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby admin » Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:22 am

We hit 89% migration off ST3 last month and it's projected to trend to... wait for it... near the ST3 end of life date! Take one guess why March 31 2020 was chosen for the ST3 EOL... :)

@Fred Didn't you move to working on the MyTourbook project?
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby FredB1184 » Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:36 am

It seems that you're happy with it, so I suppose it's all good for you :D ! Maybe the level of complaint here doesn't reflect the actual numbers (which nobody has access other than you).
But at the same time, you also removed quite a bunch of unhappy messages (a quick example coming to mind would be Dyno's messages yesterday :P ) so i suppose one can always make something look better than it actually is especially when it comes to figures....

@Fred Didn't you move to working on the MyTourbook project?
==> Correct, let me know if you have any questions about it
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby staffann » Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:51 am

I try to use mobi as much as possible, but often run into limitations related to very simple things. No, mobi is not yet a worthty replacement for ST3. Like adding a lap marker, i.e. splitting a lap into two. Can I really not do that? Really? The lap editing feature is one area were it seems like the developers are newcomers to this, rather than having the long experience from ST3. From some blog article I read some time ago it sounded that you can actually do the corresponding thing for swim workouts (I don't swim myself). Then why not for other types of workouts?

Please correct me if I am wrong - then with instructions how to do it.
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby admin » Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:51 am

FredB1184 wrote:@Fred Didn't you move to working on the MyTourbook project?
==> Correct, let me know if you have any questions about it

Awesome. It will be a much more productive use of your time and focus, and they will benefit from your help! I wish you the best.

staffann wrote:No, mobi is not yet a worthty replacement for ST3. Like adding a lap marker, i.e. splitting a lap into two.

There's no split lap feature, not even any customer request... Which I think speaks again @Acree's aggravation, and to where the fitness software market and our customers have moved to prioritize other features versus ease of use and user experience annoyances.
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby alphasports » Sat Oct 05, 2019 1:29 pm

A bit late to this particular party but I just figured I'd throw in my .02 if a bit simplified:

For years since the advent of personal HR devices (I guess early 90's?) I used Polar watches and their various horrific attempts at software analysis tools simply because they were the pioneers in the industry and for awhile had a compelling if difficult-to-use product set. I mean, their software generally worked if you managed to trick whatever nutty serial transfer interface they employed for any given product (I specifically remember their particularly ridiculous USB-IR dongle thingy), while their watches were alternatingly ok or unuseable, I mean for years you had to send the watches to Polar for a battery change FFS...End Of Life came to their software (and my use of it) when later versions of Windows simply would not work with the goddam IR dongle; talk about getting booted off a platform cold turkey. They forced you to buy what at the time were very overpriced watches just to be able to upgrade to the latest software that did not work with my previous top of the line $700 watch that was only 3 years old.

Luckily all thru that era I kept all my Polar .HRM files for eventual import into Sporttracks desktop and was delighted when Garmin started coming out with viable HRM devices of their own. So after years of dependence on a purely Polar ecosystem I now had a choice of hardware and software. As Garmin Connect improved I started using it as a backup data transfer interface until eventually it became my primary, with ST as a local backup. I eventually signed up for Mobi as well but continue to this day to maintain Mobi/ST Desktop/Garmin Connect as fully parallel systems. I actually also recently resurrected Polar in my repertoire when I bought their excellent H10 HR strap, so I now have Mobi/ST Desktop/Garmin Connect AND Polar Flow, though Polar true to their heritage is pretty useless in terms of importing data from other platforms (other than simple courses).

Forgive the rambling but my point is fairly obvious: never trust a single resource if you care about what you store there. Sure it's a bummer that ST is going away, and I would love to have local data access, but I learned my lesson a long time ago with Polar so I'm covered. I expect many of you data junkies are too.
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby McMack » Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:59 am

I have to agree. No way I'm "moving forward" with mobi. You put a product out there that satisfies my needs and then pull the rug out from under me. No further loyalty, sorry.
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby marathonmann3n » Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:56 pm

Last week the Garmin Communicator Plugin suddenly gave up. When I try to import it is not initializing the plugin. I have tried to reinstall it several times but no luck. I know that ST3 is soon to be EOL but it would have been nice to wait with the decision to change. I have been using ST mainly for running. And I have data in ST3 since 2006 so its important that I can import everything to a new tool.

What are the alternatives? Pros and cons?
I have searched and read a lot in the forum but couldn't find a complete answer to those questions. I know that there aren't so many members left in this forum but I am hoping that someone could help me. Either answer here or point me to a review page with tested tools.

What I would like is a simple tool preferably locally on my pc so I have control over my data but also cloud-type SW is of interest. I would like to be able to see runs in a map and also able to do statistics on all data. Since there aren't that many locally pc tools around any longer I have been looking at Garmin Connect. Anyone using that? Or other tool/s?

/John
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby ksherman » Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:20 pm

marathonmann3n wrote:Last week the Garmin Communicator Plugin suddenly gave up.


I'm not sure why you think that is an ST issue. Shouldn't you be asking Garmin about that, at which point they will tell you it was passed over 6 years ago.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18104&p=93718&hilit=Communicator#p93718
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby IAmFedUpWithThis » Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:48 am

ksherman wrote:
marathonmann3n wrote:Last week the Garmin Communicator Plugin suddenly gave up.


I'm not sure why you think that is an ST issue. Shouldn't you be asking Garmin about that, at which point they will tell you it was passed over 6 years ago.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18104&p=93718&hilit=Communicator#p93718


Or if you're using a Garmin that connects with a USB cable, simply browse to the appropriate folder (X:/Garmin/Activity on the 630, where X is the drive letter that Windows has assigned to it) and import the file from there in SportTracks.
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby pucko » Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:52 pm

Hi Admin.

I have one small Question.

I really think you are fooling people. I have seen posts where you write

"The PC license is for lifetime of 3.x software. It grants use of the software as long as you own it."

Since you are shutting down the servers and prevent us from using it.. Does that mean that you don't think
i own the software that I bought anymore?

I doubt you would answer my question. I rather guess this post will just get deleted since you like to stop critics the same way Kim-Jong Un does.

But, one more question. Do you offer any real blacklist that if I get really drunk and stupid
and get the idea to buy any other software or subscription from you, prevents me from buying from you?
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby zacklaws » Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:18 am

pucko wrote:
I really think you are fooling people. I have seen posts where you write

"The PC license is for lifetime of 3.x software. It grants use of the software as long as you own it."

Since you are shutting down the servers and prevent us from using it.. Does that mean that you don't think
i own the software that I bought anymore?



Taken to court, it will not fare well for the developer. The only solution to the whole matter, is to keep it running for existing users who have purchased it or a means of keeping it working. Otherwise it will be costly to the developer.
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Re: I am crushed....

Postby whiskywheels » Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:55 am

We were promised in Feb. '18 that the software would continue to be available
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17902&p=92717&sid=2624f7565170a5de853ff53ad9ded188#p92715
In view of this lie, and the removal of product we have paid for, what arrangements exist for refund or discount on mobi?
Or must we resort to litigation?
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