Elevation Correction in Sporttracks.mobi

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Elevation Correction in Sporttracks.mobi

Postby Kaspar Pflugshaupt » Thu Sep 24, 2015 3:04 am

admin wrote:We've made a change to some hill ascend/descend determination logic. You can check out the changes online now. To trigger a recalculate of your gain/loss, uncheck and recheck the elevation correction option in the workout edit menu.

Please let us know how this looks.


Thanks for the quick reaction!

On the run I linked to above, I went and checked the correction feature, which resulted in a much more realistic 412 m of altitude gain. However, as soon as I switched it back off, the value reverted to the previous 236m (as mentioned in my initial post). Is this meant to happen, or is there still a bug?

This would mean I would have to check the "correction" for all my future hill runs if I want relevant numbers. However, my GPS watch already delivers them, so I'd rather not. Comparing to other tools, TrainingPeaks and Strava both calculate reasonable elevation gains for this run (384 m /420 m).

Switching the correction on for all runs via user prefs is anyway not an option for me, because many of my runs are along the bottom of a steep valley here in Zurich. The automatic correction uses an inaccurate altitude model, thus results in huge virtual ascents and descents for those runs (this also happens if I switch on correction in TrainingPeaks, these models are just not that accurate)-
An example for this is my mostly flat run at http://sporttracks.mobi/activity/9392164, where the standard elevation gain is calculated as 24m (correctly representing the elevation curve). Switching the correction on introduces fantasical hills into the elevation curve, and overestimates the gain as 94m.

Thanks a lot for your efforts, I appreciate the support here!

Kaspar
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Re: Elevation Correction in Sporttracks.mobi

Postby admin » Thu Sep 24, 2015 7:37 am

Sorry, but I don't understand this reply.

Do you still have a question? If so, what is it?
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Re: Elevation Correction in Sporttracks.mobi

Postby Kaspar Pflugshaupt » Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:46 am

admin wrote:Sorry, but I don't understand this reply.

Do you still have a question? If so, what is it?


Sorry for rambling, I'll try to keep it shorter.

I tried out the method you proposed to get better elevation gain results: I switched elevation correction on on the run at http://sporttracks.mobi/activity/9493120, and then off again.
The result was unsatisfactory, in that the elevation gain is still calculated as 236m. With the correction switched on, it had changed to 412 m.

Is this supposed to happen? Or did I misunderstand your proposed fix?

My goal is to get an elevation gain of ca. 400m on that run, as reported by my GPS watch (Polar V800) and other web tools.
SportTracks.mobi gives me 236m that appear not to take into account repeated ascents.
I prefer not to switch on the elevation correction for this (because the correction would mess up many of my other runs).

Is this possible?

(Hoping that was clearer -- sorry again)
Kaspar
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Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:53 am

Re: Elevation Correction in Sporttracks.mobi

Postby admin » Thu Sep 24, 2015 1:04 pm

I switched elevation correction on on the run at http://sporttracks.mobi/activity/9493120, and then off again.
The result was unsatisfactory, in that the elevation gain is still calculated as 236m


When elevation correction is turned -ON- it does two things:
1. Replace the elevation samples with Ground Elevation as measured from the elevation database.
2. Recalculate the total elevation gain/loss numbers.

When elevation correction is turned -OFF- it uses the elevation data exactly as recorded and reported by your watch, including the gain/loss numbers. No "calculation" takes place when it's turned off except under one circumstance - when the watch gives us elevation samples, but doesn't report the total gain/loss in the summary or lap information. Unless that scenario is present (-ALL- Garmin watches do this), we just show what the watch reports. This is as designed.

My goal is to get an elevation gain of ca. 400m on that run, as reported by my GPS watch (Polar V800) and other web tools.

See my comment above. I'm not sure how you're importing your Polar V800 data. It's possible the total gain/loss is not included in the import file. In this scenario on import it will recalculate the gain/loss, however you'll need to delete this workout and re-import it to see if it recalculates. Toggling the elevation correction on/off does not re-import or re-calculate your workout data, it only "swaps" between recorded and calculated - preserving original values on import

You can't rely on Strava at all - they -ALWAYS- change your elevation numbers, and never give you any feature to uncheck it or alter the correction. What you see in Strava will most likely be edited.

In Garmin Connect you have the option to turn on/off, like SportTracks, so you'll need to check the setting to see if the numbers are "corrected" or showing what the watch reported.

I hope all that is clear. :)
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Re: Elevation Correction in Sporttracks.mobi

Postby Kaspar Pflugshaupt » Fri Sep 25, 2015 2:53 am

admin wrote:
I switched elevation correction on on the run at http://sporttracks.mobi/activity/9493120, and then off again.
The result was unsatisfactory, in that the elevation gain is still calculated as 236m


When elevation correction is turned -ON- it does two things:
1. Replace the elevation samples with Ground Elevation as measured from the elevation database.
2. Recalculate the total elevation gain/loss numbers.

When elevation correction is turned -OFF- it uses the elevation data exactly as recorded and reported by your watch, including the gain/loss numbers. No "calculation" takes place when it's turned off except under one circumstance - when the watch gives us elevation samples, but doesn't report the total gain/loss in the summary or lap information. Unless that scenario is present (-ALL- Garmin watches do this), we just show what the watch reports. This is as designed.

My goal is to get an elevation gain of ca. 400m on that run, as reported by my GPS watch (Polar V800) and other web tools.

See my comment above. I'm not sure how you're importing your Polar V800 data. It's possible the total gain/loss is not included in the import file. In this scenario on import it will recalculate the gain/loss, however you'll need to delete this workout and re-import it to see if it recalculates. Toggling the elevation correction on/off does not re-import or re-calculate your workout data, it only "swaps" between recorded and calculated - preserving original values on import

You can't rely on Strava at all - they -ALWAYS- change your elevation numbers, and never give you any feature to uncheck it or alter the correction. What you see in Strava will most likely be edited.

In Garmin Connect you have the option to turn on/off, like SportTracks, so you'll need to check the setting to see if the numbers are "corrected" or showing what the watch reported.

I hope all that is clear. :)


Yes! Thanks lots, I understand it now. :)

I deleted and reimported the run in question, and altitude gain is now calculated as 396m. Perfect!!
(The watch and Polar Flow give 405m, probably due to some small bumps that you rightly ignore)

FYI, the only way to (currently) transfer Polar V800 activities is to export them as TCX files from Polar Flow, then import these into SportTracks. I've checked one such file, and there is no total altitude gain number in there. So, all works as you stated.
(I'm hoping for some automatic transfer from Polar Flow in the future, but that's up to Polar -- they claim to be working on it)

Now, if I could trigger re-calculation of altitude gain for all my past runs, without re-importing them, I'd be even happier :)
But I guess I'll just re-import the most obvious ones, like hill repetitions.

Thanks for the great support!

Kaspar
Kaspar Pflugshaupt
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:53 am


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