Distance missing on mobi.

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Distance missing on mobi.

Postby JeroenVanOmme » Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:44 am

Hi All,

not sure if this is a plug-in, ST or .mobi bug, but it's strange:
My SpoQ/GlobalSat watch shows I ran a distance of 12,92 km in a time of 1:06:40.
When I import this to ST (desktop), these figures are the same. However, after the automatic upload to .mobi (http://sporttracks.mobi/activity/8266031), it seems some data is missing.
See attached screen shot: Totals at the top are correct, but the graph only goes to approx. 11,63 km. So, I'm missing about a kilometre.
When using Tapiirik to send the activity to Strava, these "false" values are uploaded, so any calculations done by Strava are based on these values, for example pace goes from 5:10 to 5:44 :(
(https://www.strava.com/activities/276766565)
Attachments
distance_missing.jpg
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Re: Distance missing on mobi.

Postby admin » Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:36 pm

Two things:
1. You can see the map, so it should be clear if data was dropped or not. Does the map accurately reflect where you started and ended your workout?

2. You'll need to attach the workout data you imported if you want someone to diagnose the issue.
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Re: Distance missing on mobi.

Postby JeroenVanOmme » Wed Apr 01, 2015 3:29 am

admin wrote:Two things:
1. You can see the map, so it should be clear if data was dropped or not. Does the map accurately reflect where you started and ended your workout?

Yes, the map does reflect where I started and ended my workout
admin wrote:2. You'll need to attach the workout data you imported if you want someone to diagnose the issue.

I've attached the fitlog and gpx file, exported from ST

Well, before I sent this reply I inspected the fitlog and gpx.
Strangely, the fitlog header says Total meters 12903, but the points only go to dist="11636.2", with the "Marker dist" further down the file (not sure what this is) = 12903.
Viewing the GPX file in GPSPrune gives me a total of 12,9 (as expected)


Also, below you can see my 1k splits, which as you can see, continue, as expected, to 12,92 km
Code: Select all
Tijd   Afstand   Ronde tijd   Ronde afstand   Ronde tempo   Tempo wijziging t.o.v. laatste   Tempo t.o.v. gem.   Hoogte verschil
0:04:53   1,00   4:53   1,00   4:53      -0:16,34   +7
0:09:51   2,00   4:57   1,00   4:58   +0:04,32   -0:12,02   +3
0:14:55   3,00   5:04   1,00   5:05   +0:06,84   -0:05,18   +16
0:20:16   4,00   5:21   1,00   5:21   +0:16,71   +0:11,54   +14
0:25:21   5,00   5:04   1,00   5:05   -0:16,34   -0:04,81   -15
0:30:18   6,00   4:57   1,00   4:57   -0:07,76   -0:12,57   -13
0:35:53   7,00   5:34   1,00   5:35   +0:37,70   +0:25,12   +14
0:41:12   8,00   5:18   1,00   5:18   -0:16,32   +0:08,80   +2
0:46:36   9,00   5:24   1,00   5:24   +0:05,58   +0:14,38   +4
0:51:52   10,00   5:16   1,00   5:16   -0:07,66   +0:06,72   -8
0:56:54   11,00   5:02   1,00   5:02   -0:14,27   -0:07,54   -14
1:02:02   12,00   5:07   1,00   5:08   +0:05,60   -0:01,94   -5
1:06:40   12,92   4:37   0,92   5:03   -0:04,79   -0:06,74   -5


Hopefully this will give you enough info, but please feel free to contact me for more details if needed.

Jeroen
Attachments
Sporttracks.rar
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Sporttracks.fitlog
(211.74 KiB) Downloaded 152 times
JeroenVanOmme
 
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Re: Distance missing on mobi.

Postby admin » Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:06 am

GPS watches record two things:
1. A GPS track.
2. Summary totals.

We show totals as reported by the watch - in your case: 12,9km
We show points as recorded, and calculate the distance: 11,6km

If these numbers disagree, it typically means your watch calculated a longer distance than the actual recorded GPS points.

Historically this can happen in deep tree cover with lots of switchbacks, where GPS signal "clips" turns you made, but total distance calculates from some other metric (accelerometer, footpod, etc). You can zoom in on your route and see if distance is missing.

Unfortunately there isn't much we can do from this. If you feel the total distance is correct, but the GPS route is wrong - you can use the route editing tools in the PC app to edit the route. If you feel the GPS route is totally accurate you can edit the total distance to make them agree.

Final note: I don't know anything about this brand of watch, but it's not a mainstream one. It's possible their distance calculation, or detection of satellite drops, etc - is just faulty.
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Re: Distance missing on mobi.

Postby JeroenVanOmme » Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:39 am

Thank you for your expansive reply.
I'm not sure I can agree with your findings, but perhaps I'm not understanding corectly.

The totals my watch show match the length and duration as recorded in the GPX-file.
I loaded the GPX file on two different platforms (GPSprune and dutch website http://www.afstandmeten.nl) They are almost identical, about 5 meters off, I suspect because afstandmeten.nl reduces the number of points after loading.
Also, ST desktop shows distance and 1k splits upto 12,9 km.
What I don't understand, is why the exported fitlog-file shows a lesser distance.
I converted the fitlog to gpx (using http://www.gpsvisualizer.com/), and opened the resulting file in GPSPrune. This shows the distance (now based on the trackpoint-list, not the dist-element in the fitlog!) of 12,9 km, while the "dist" element in the fitlog ends at 11,636 km.
My uneducated guess: when creating the fitlog, the distance for the "dist"-element is incorrectly calculated. If the fitlog is then used to update ST.mobi, this error is passed along aswell.

I hope I am making sense, if not please feel free to correct me :lol:

BTW the A'Rival SpoQ watch is a rebranded GlobalSat GH-625XT. This watch had a very active community, some members are also on the ST forums. If this problem was somehow related to the watch, I expect the community to have reported it long ago.
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Re: Distance missing on mobi.

Postby admin » Thu Apr 02, 2015 9:27 am

I've done further investigation with your data.

The exported fitlog also includes a distance track - recorded samples of the exact distance at each point in time. When you import this file, the software will use the distance values to show you distance along the route. Typically the distance track is recorded by a cadence sensor, so it's "trusted" to be more accurate than the GPS values.

In your data, I see the total distance in the fitlog recorded at 11636.2 meters. So this perfectly explains why you see that as the total distance on the track.

Exporting a GPX file will strip out the recorded distance - the GPX format doesn't allow for distance data, just GPS points. In this scenario distance will be recalculated from the GPS points. Which perfectly explains why it reports 12,9km.

The question remaining: Why does your imported data have distance samples that don't match the total? Perhaps part of the SpoQ import? Perhaps you've configured SportTracks to auto-detect stops, so it's excluding part of your run?
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Re: Distance missing on mobi.

Postby JeroenVanOmme » Sat Apr 11, 2015 7:11 am

Sorry for the late update, was on holiday for a week, with little to no internet connection.
Did some running though and, once I got home, imported the tracks from my watch, but unchecked the "detect pauses from speed to GPS differences" option in the import configuration. This resulted in figures that are more in line with each other.
My 17.20 km run shows a graph going to 17,37 km. A difference of 170 meters I can live with. (On this run (http://sporttracks.mobi/activity/8333889) I actually paused for a minute to find my way, the watch auto-paused on that, so this is not a problem.)
Other runs have similar differences, but the missing 1+ kilometres are gone.

Thanks for spending time on this issue, it is much appreciated!

Another update, but not a positive one.
I did a 25K (created on afstandmeten.nl, then uploaded to my watch) run last saturday, and unfortunately, about 4 kilometres where missing when uploaded to ST.mobi.
Checked the fitlog/TCX file and it was the same problem: totals where fine, calculated distance was too low. So it seems my previous solution of turning of the "detect pauses from speed to GPS differences" option at import was not the trick.
I have now found an online "tcx distance recalculator" at http://tcxtools.com/ which will take the GPSmarks in the TCX file and calculate the cummulative distances based on those points. This results in a calculated total similar to the "general" total at the top of the file.
Too bad this is a manual action I have to take after every workout, but at least my data will be consistent between the different apps (ST, ST.mobi, Strava,...)
Hope this tip will help someone else aswell.
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Re: Distance missing on mobi.

Postby JeroenVanOmme » Tue Aug 18, 2015 2:59 am

Major (and positive) update:
Gerhard Olsson, developer of the GlobalSat import plugin has created a new version of the plugin with the option to discard calculated distance data during import. Based on "raw" GPS points, the tracks are more accurate.
Plug-in version can be found here: https://github.com/gerhardol/globalsat-sporttracks-plugin/releases

:!: Many many thanks to Gerhard for his time and effort! :!:

Note:
when importing an indoor workout like crosstraining, make sure you do not discard the calculated distance data. ST will handle this without problems, but after syncing using tapiriik, Strava won't show your heartrate-data.
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